Are You a Believer?

[Libre]

I can understand the need to believe in a higher spirit, to think that there is someone – or something – watching over us. Kind of like a BIG DADDY, that loves us, that knows all about us, everything we do, everything we think. We want to please our big daddy, and make Him proud of us. We want there to be a purpose to our existence, our lives, and our universe. Otherwise, it’s all chaos; it’s all a big crap shoot. We don’t want that. We want the good to be rewarded, and evildoers punished. We know life may not seem fair, but if there is a reckoning someday, when each and every one of us has to account for our lives and our deeds, well, maybe things work out fairly after all.

I understand the need to have faith in such a system, I just can’t subscribe to it. It’s not that I need ABSOLUTE PROOF for everything – but a shred of evidence would be nice. Considering how often the BIG GUY used to show himself in biblical times, well, even a cameo appearance would be nice. But it’s like wishing for big blue eggplants to fall from the sky. Jesus Christ said he was the Son of God. Or, if he didn’t, lots of other people have claimed it. I could give the claim some credence, if Christ hadn’t looked remarkably like every other person that has ever existed. If someone told you today, that they were a deity, or the son of one, you might recommend a room with padded walls and regular doses of some strong medication. What makes J.C.’s claim more plausible? The fact that he made it 2000 years ago? Not to me.

In my belief system, people are organisms, and there is no BIG DADDY. We are a higher order of organism than planaria, to be certain, but we are organisms none-the-less. Through the process of evolution, we have developed such a large brain, and so much intelligence, that we can invent concepts that comfort us – such as fairness and justice, Heaven and Hell, and a God – sort of a super Santa Claus, who keeps a list, and doles out rewards and punishments – the cosmic equivalents of pretty gift wrapped boxes and lumps of coal.

Thinking about it rationally, does it make any sense at all? Not to me. Good behavior is its own reward. I long ago found out Santa does not exist – either the white bearded one with the red suit and the elves, or the bigger one who sits on his invisible throne in the sky.

Not one religion out of the innumerable ones that have existed makes any sense to me. I was born a Jew, and I’m proud of my people’s history – but I have nothing in common with the Observant Jew, who observes the rituals, dietary laws, innumerable prohibitions, and who prays to – and fears – Ashem. The Greeks and Romans, to me, had equal validity in their concept of Mount Olympus, the Buddhists, the Baptists, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, Catholics, Hindus – to me they are variations on the same theme. One God or many, it's a belief in a comforting concept, but a concept that is pure fiction.

That’s my view.
Thanks for reading it.

 

[Heteronym]

I can't even understand the need to believe in a Higher Being anymore. Big Daddy is just one word of difference from Big Brother. Believing in a Universal Fairness System hasn't made our lives better. If it was supposed to make life more bearable for humans, I say it has failed. It's pernicious, it creates illusions about human nature. People should rather accept that we are born with the same propensity for good and evil, that we display both concepts unpredictably, that injustice will always exist, that goodness will not always be rewarded, that there will always be poor people and rich people, that hatred will not disappear. People should accept all this and learn to live with it as well as possible instead of building comforting fantasies. Intelligence can't have anything to do with it: evolution is supposed to occur to make sure a species lives longer. I'd say religion is an obstacle to our survival as a species. A scientist has estimated that from the beginning of our world there have existed 50 billion life species; of all those, just one produced what we call 'higher intelligence.' Statistcally speaking, intelligence is a BIG anomaly in nature and apparently no more useful than big claws and teeth. Think about that.

Beliving in a deity and all that comes with it is really nothing more than misanthropism, a rejection of our human nature, pure spite for our earthly existence; I say religion has done more to foster intolerance and hatred between people, to make live unbearable on Earth, to mock human dignity than anything else. For if life is worthless down here and it's only good up there, why bother trying to fix it? We're just passing through anyway.

Except we're not, and once our time on this mudball is up, that will be all the time that was given to us.

No religion has ever seemed useful to me, nor have I found one wiser than the other. I understand that in the New Age '70s, Christianity was out and Buddhism in; it's still popular today as the 'better' religion. But if you study Buddhism, you'll find it's just as obscurantist as any other religion, as spiteful of our petty, meaningless existence. Between Buddha and Christ, I would choose neither. History has given us wiser, more tolerant (for Jesus wasn't high on tolerance and wisdom) men like Socrates and Confuncius. Unlike the Holy Texts, these thinkers don't self-contradict; they're not preaching wordly kindliness today and preaching hatred towards non-believers tomorrow. They both showed more tolerance to the people who didn't pay attention to their ideas and they seemed to understand and appreciate better human weaknesses, which religion insists on making a crime of most of the time.

It's sad to realise that what we call religion today is really nothing more than the results of ignorant, barbarous men trying, thousands of years ago in the Middle East, to understand weird phenomena. What a legacy! How much longer should we put up with what these primitive men believed?

Some people think that without religion, without the Ten Commandments, without Big Brother In The Sky, people would just revert to barbarism, become evil (I mean, more than we already are now), abolish all laws, forget moral mores, wallow in chaos (because the world is such an orderly place nowadays), etc. This is all nonsense, of course. So long as people stay united (and people have always sought society throughout history), there will always be laws and civil duties to make social life workable for mutual survival. We don't need Big Brother In The Sky to tell us what's good and bad (and to be honest, he never has done so), we can work out for ourselves what's necessary to make life good on Earth.

I, however, am not holding my breath in antecipation of a day when religion will disappear.


Libre, have you ever read Bertrand Russell's Why I Am Not A Christian? It's a pretty funny book (what else could a Russell book be) about everything that makes no sense in religion.

 

[Libre]

Libre, have you ever read Bertrand Russell's Why I Am Not A Christian? It's a pretty funny book (what else could a Russell book be) about everything that makes no sense in religion.

I've read excerpts. Saw a link to it somewhere - maybe on TBF.
Heteronym, I agree with much of what you wrote, yet I take a less antagonistic view of religion. To say religion fosters intolerance and hatred may look correct on the surface, yet those that respond in those ways are the intolerant sort to begin with.

As far as...

Statistcally speaking, intelligence is a BIG anomaly in nature and apparently no more useful than big claws and teeth. Think about that.

...well, we humans are the dominant species on this planet. We're far weaker, physically, than the ones with the big claws and teeth, yet we've put them in zoos, driven many to the brink of extinction, and built cities in their former habitats. Maybe we've been unwise to do so, but I'm talking about intelligence, not wisdom.

 

[MonkeyCatcher]

What makes J.C.’s claim more plausible? The fact that he made it 2000 years ago? Not to me.

If the stories contained in the Bible are correct, than JC's claim is more plausible because he proved his claim through "miracles". Things like walking on water, raising people from the dead, healing the sick, enabling cripples to walk again etc etc.
Then again, if you don't believe what is contained in the Bible, then there is absolutely nothing that makes his claim more plausible.

 

[Sitaram]

If the stories contained in the Bible are correct, than JC's claim is more plausible because he proved his claim through "miracles". Things like walking on water, raising people from the dead, healing the sick, enabling cripples to walk again etc etc.
Then again, if you don't believe what is contained in the Bible, then there is absolutely nothing that makes his claim more plausible.

Your post brings to my mind an interesting comment, which has to do with Pharoah and Moses in the Old Testament. When God tells Moses to do various things (a commission if you will), then Moses asks God a very reasonable quetion regarding why anyone should believe him. God then tells Moses that he shall be able to perform three kings of miracle (my memory is a bit hazy). He will be able to throw down his staff, and it shall become a serpent, and then he shall be able to pick up the serpent, and it shall become a staff again. I forget the other details. Anyway, my point is that God told Moses that he might convince people with miracles. Miracles then becomes a form of rhetoric, does it not?

Now, we know that Moses called down ten plagues upon egypt. If my ailing memory serves me at all, the magicians of Pharoah were able to duplicate the first four of Moses miracles. But, with the fifth, they were no longer able to duplicate, and the magicians of Pharaoh came to him and said, "Surely this is the finger of God." So, even the pagan magicians were convinced by miracles after a certain point. But Pharoah was never convinced.

All this touches upon a long theological story regarding the "hardening of Pharoah's heart". The early Christian Greek theologians such as Basil, Chrysostome, Justin Martyr, Gregorius and others, pondered the following enigma. It is written in Scripture that "God loves all people and desires that none be destroyed but that all come to a knowledge of the truth." (paraphrased from memory). And yet, it is also written that "Ten times Moses came to Pharoah and said 'Let my people go" but ten times, God hardened Pharoah's heart." Now, if it is true that God desires the salvation of all, then what does it mean to say that God hardens Pharoah's heart? Why would God not soften Pharoah's heart and have him believe and follow Moses into the wilderness? The answer, at least for the early Church Fathers, lies in the notion that, though God desires, yet, the free will consent and cooperation of the individual is necessary to complete the salvific process, and that Pharoah, though his own freewill choices had such a nature that God, from a pre-eternal vantage point, could foreknow that, if Pharoah were offered the precious gift of faith, that Pharoah's nature was sufficiently hardened by Pharoah's free will cohices that Pharoah would trample upon the offering of that gift of faith, just as swine trample upon the precious pearls.

Actually I have much more to say, but I must post this or lose it, and there is only a 15 minute window of edit. So forgive me if I continue with this thought on my next post.

 

[Gem]

Libre,

I would say I’m not a believer, and my views tally with yours, but if I’m honest, then I have to acknowledge that this is still an ongoing question for me, because there are times when I’m uncertain.
The thing that perplexes me is: does the existence of God really make any difference to anything? I don't think it does.
If the unimaginable was to happen and we were able to prove that God does exist - would it change the human race in any way? Would it change your own life in any way?

What a legacy! How much longer should we put up with what these primitive men believed?

Heteronym, what do we do about religion then - should it all be wiped away?
I can see your point, the acts that have been carried out in the name of religion are horrific and have always been so, but if we were to take away religion - would we need to replace it with something?

 

[MonkeyCatcher]

I just realised that I didn't answer the question in my previous post. No, I'm not a believer. I just can't believe something that is not backed up by any real evidence.

I personally am an athiest - I subscribe to evolution.

If the unimaginable was to happen and we were able to prove that God does exist - would it change the human race in any way? Would it change your own life in any way?

I don't think that it would change the human race overly much - the only thing that would change is that majority of people would believe he existed (I'm sure that you would still have a few crackpots who refused to believe the evidence). Just because people believe he exists, however, does not mean that they will adhere to his system of rules or decide to worship him, so you would still have crime etc plaguing the world.
My life would only change in that my view on the origin of life would be altered. I don't think that I would ever worship him even if he was proven to exist, as from observing the current state of affairs on Earth, I don't think that he is truely all-loving, all-caring and totally forgiving. I don't think that I could ever worship someone who is as cruel as God seems to be (cruel because of all of the suffering and terror that exists in the world - all of which is attributed to being part of "His plan".)

 

[Libre]

Libre,
The thing that perplexes me is: does the existence of God really make any difference to anything? I don't think it does.
If the unimaginable was to happen and we were able to prove that God does exist - would it change the human race in any way? Would it change your own life in any way?

As you say, it's unimaginable, but it would make a huge difference. Don't you act differently if you know your boss is watching you?

 

[Gem]

As you say, it's unimaginable, but it would make a huge difference. Don't you act differently if you know your boss is watching you?

I am my boss .
All the religious people do believe God is watching them don't they? Yet it doesn't seem to make a difference.

 

[Heteronym]

Heteronym, I agree with much of what you wrote, yet I take a less antagonistic view of religion. To say religion fosters intolerance and hatred may look correct on the surface, yet those that respond in those ways are the intolerant sort to begin with.

Smoking causes cancer; if I say it causes cancer, am I the one causing cancer?

If we must challenge religion, we must call it for its real names - which are bigotry, hatred, misanthropism, etc. Speaking against religion is still a deeply-rooted taboo in our minds. I'll say it again: religion is intolerant! How does that make intolerant?

Well, we humans are the dominant species on this planet. We're far weaker, physically, than the ones with the big claws and teeth, yet we've put them in zoos, driven many to the brink of extinction, and built cities in their former habitats. Maybe we've been unwise to do so, but I'm talking about intelligence, not wisdom.

Erns Mayr, famous biologist, estimated that each life form lasts around 100000 years before reaching extinction. 100000 years is around Mankind's age. With global heating, nuclear war, religious fundamentalism, population becoming worse, it might just be that the intelligence that made us a dominant species (and we have only been 'dominant' for around 10000 years) might not be more useful to survival than the wings on a fly. Even more saddening, all our problems have been caused by our own intelligence.

Heteronym, what do we do about religion then - should it all be wiped away?
I can see your point, the acts that have been carried out in the name of religion are horrific and have always been so, but if we were to take away religion - would we need to replace it with something?

My undemocratic views lean toward the complete extermination of religion, like an epidemy but most people would probably prefer a slower, more peaceful way to end it. It wouldn't make a difference so long as the main goal were achieved, which is its complete disappearence.

Nothing needs to replace it. Unlike some religious people, I don't believe that without a Big Brother In The Sky the world would plunge in chaos, promiscuity and lawlessness. People would establish new social rules because it would be useful for a peaceful existence.

The thing that perplexes me is: does the existence of God really make any difference to anything? I don't think it does.
If the unimaginable was to happen and we were able to prove that God does exist - would it change the human race in any way?

That would certainly make the question of Evil more interesting; I just accept that evil comes from natural human weaknesses, the result of living in a hostile world that makes our lives difficult, forcing us to sometimes be unkind to others.

But if God were to be proven, then Evil would be his doing, and everyone should ask, Well, why hasn't he done anything about it if he could? If he loves us so much, why doesn't he end Evil? Why keep punishing us for an Original Sin that happened eons ago? If he is so omnipotent, why didn't he create us without the propensity for evil in the first place?

To quote Epicurus: "God either wants to eliminate bad things and cannot, or can but does not want to, or neither wishes to nor can, or both wants to and can. If he wants to and cannot, he is weak -- and this does not apply to god. If he can but does not want to, then he is spiteful -- which is equally foreign to god's nature. If he neither wants to nor can, he is both weak and spiteful and so not a god. If he wants to and can, which is the only thing fitting for a god, where then do bad things come from? Or why does he not eliminate them."

Some people can make God's irrationality seem so obvious.

 

[SFG75]

Believing in a Universal Fairness System hasn't made our lives better. If it was supposed to make life more bearable for humans, I say it has failed. It's pernicious, it creates illusions about human nature.

The wonder of faith has done a favor for mankind. The service of a Mother Teresa and the countless other dedicated servants of god(priests, ministers, monks, nuns, chaplains, lay persons, etc.) have brought peace and well-being to an infinite number of people. If you attend a service, seeing an elderly couple kneel together for communion can help you gain that sense of appeciation of what it has done for others.

People should rather accept that we are born with the same propensity for good and evil, that we display both concepts unpredictably, that injustice will always exist, that goodness will not always be rewarded, that there will always be poor people and rich people, that hatred will not disappear. People should accept all this and learn to live with it as well as possible instead of building comforting fantasies.

Other than a few notable exceptions, I believe that most people of faith accept free-agency and that we determine our own actions.

Beliving in a deity and all that comes with it is really nothing more than misanthropism, a rejection of our human nature, pure spite for our earthly existence;

It can also be the most life affirming institution.

No religion has ever seemed useful to me, nor have I found one wiser than the other. I understand that in the New Age '70s, Christianity was out and Buddhism in; it's still popular today as the 'better' religion. But if you study Buddhism, you'll find it's just as obscurantist as any other religion, as spiteful of our petty, meaningless existence. Between Buddha and Christ, I would choose neither.

The '60s brought on quite an interest with eastern philosophy and ways. The Beatles using the Sitar and sitting cross-legged with the Maharishi really brought that out. Shambhala is a fascinating publisher of Buddhist books here in the states and is very popular with the Utne Reader crowd and other liberal minded folks. You are correct, what we find so esoteric and interesting is nothing more than a dried up institution to people say,....in Thailand and other areas. They view it as just as corrupt and moribound. Familiarity breeds contempt?

History has given us wiser, more tolerant (for Jesus wasn't high on tolerance and wisdom)

I'd say that's arguable-men like Jefferson used the parables and other stories, while omitting the more "miraculous" parts(the "Jefferson Bible" is an interesting read in that regard) Some blame Paul for the codification of Jesus into a static religious figure.

men like Socrates and Confuncius. Unlike the Holy Texts, these thinkers don't self-contradict; they're not preaching wordly kindliness today and preaching hatred towards non-believers tomorrow. They both showed more tolerance to the people who didn't pay attention to their ideas and they seemed to understand and appreciate better human weaknesses, which religion insists on making a crime of most of the time.

They also thrived in a society where slavery was rampant. As far as I know, none of them were abolitionists in spirit. Plato's ideas in The Republic is just bout as inhumane as you could possibly get in regards to how society should be organized. They did plant the early seeds of democracy, though their contradition was lounging around the markets and open areas teaching while thousands slaved on.

It's sad to realise that what we call religion today is really nothing more than the results of ignorant, barbarous men trying, thousands of years ago in the Middle East, to understand weird phenomena. What a legacy! How much longer should we put up with what these primitive men believed?

Jefferson once wrote that in the future, most people of faith would be Unitarians. They would possess the wonders of faith, while holding the literal pronunciations of say....a Paul at arms length. the world would be better off(especially in the middl east) if this were carried out.

have you ever read Bertrand Russell's Why I Am Not A Christian? It's a pretty funny book (what else could a Russell book be) about everything that makes no sense in religion.

An excellent book, certainly one that realy influenced me when I was in college. I love the reasoning and the heartfelt explanation as to why he felt as he did.

 

[Libre]

I am my boss.

Gem-
If God were proven to exist you couldn't say that. That would be the difference.
But, well, it's NEVER going to happen. Those that ARE believers think that the proof for God's existence is abundant now. Those that are NOT (you, me, most every other rational person) knows that the so-called "proof" is not a proof at all.

Erns Mayr, famous biologist, estimated that each life form lasts around 100000 years before reaching extinction. 100000 years is around Mankind's age. With global heating, nuclear war, religious fundamentalism, population becoming worse, it might just be that the intelligence that made us a dominant species (and we have only been 'dominant' for around 10000 years) might not be more useful to survival than the wings on a fly. Even more saddening, all our problems have been caused by our own intelligence

.
Heteronym-
Maybe, but while we were here we had some fun, on top of the food chain. Can't say that for the flies.
I don't understand your analogy about cancer at all.
If a bunch of racists get together and create a chapter of the Klan, and work themselves up into a frenzy, and then go out and lynch some poor soul, did the Klan cause the racism? If the Klan were eliminated, would racism be eliminated?

The wonder of faith has done a favor for mankind. The service of a Mother Teresa and the countless other dedicated servants of god(priests, ministers, monks, nuns, chaplains, lay persons, etc.) have brought peace and well-being to an infinite number of people. If you attend a service, seeing an elderly couple kneel together for communion can help you gain that sense of appeciation of what it has done for others.

SFG75-
While others may want to debate the value of religion, I'm posing the question, Do You Believe in God? Not whether such a belief has any value. Personally, for me, it doesn't. But I said up front that I understand that for many it might have value. That is, if believing in a fiction has value. Example: A person with a terminal, incurable disease might believe he/she is going to recover. Even though it is a fiction, it might make them feel better while they are still around.

 

[Heteronym]

The wonder of faith has done a favor for mankind. The service of a Mother Teresa and the countless other dedicated servants of god(priests, ministers, monks, nuns, chaplains, lay persons, etc.) have brought peace and well-being to an infinite number of people.

For all the people who do good in the name of God (rather hypocrite to me) there are those who do good for the sake of doing good (which has a lot more honesty and virtue to it)

If you attend a service, seeing an elderly couple kneel together for communion can help you gain that sense of appeciation of what it has done for others.

I can't dispute that, for I have witnessed that myself. I can only regret that people need such rituals and illusions to find comfort and meaning, and to connect with others. Connectedness should not be mediated by a deity, comfort should come from the self. The comfort found in a deity is no different than the comfort found in obeying a dictator in a time of crisis.

Other than a few notable exceptions, I believe that most people of faith accept free-agency and that we determine our own actions.

If that really is so, and I don't believe it is, it still begs the question, Why do people accept that a caring, omnipotent entity made a world where evil and injustice is always hurting his beloved creations? A lot of irrationality goes into keeping this belief alive. Logically speaking it makes no sense, and even the great Christian theologians need to make big leaps of logic to justify evil in our world. Free-agency can't have anything to do with it; if I have the power to end evil, it should be my moral duty to do so. Not doing it because it would 'interfere' with people's freedom is mocking the concept of free will.

It can also be the most life affirming institution.

So can non-religious institutions. We're back to the Mother Teresas and non-Mother Teresas of the world who help others. But remember that the Christian Church has always been the one to side longer with monarchies (and dictators), to condone slavery, to stiffle public revolts, to speak out against civil liberties, to degrade women, to block cientific knowledge, to increase unnecessary suffering by comdemning abortion and by protesting against safe sex and thus helping the propagation of STDs, to foster intolerance against non-believers, etc. And if today it seems like a life-affirming institution, it's because in spite of all its efforts, free-thinkers, slowly but surely, managed to propagate many ideas by which we today live and which forced the Church to update its image lest it would seem retrograde (which it will always seem, anyway).

The '60s brought on quite an interest with eastern philosophy and ways. The Beatles using the Sitar and sitting cross-legged with the Maharishi really brought that out. Shambhala is a fascinating publisher of Buddhist books here in the states and is very popular with the Utne Reader crowd and other liberal minded folks.

Replacing one system for another doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, but I'm sure my fellow liberal folks know what they're doing. To me, Eastern philosophy is just as silly.

I'd say that's arguable-men like Jefferson used the parables and other stories, while omitting the more "miraculous" parts(the "Jefferson Bible" is an interesting read in that regard) Some blame Paul for the codification of Jesus into a static religious figure.

I'm not talking about Jesus as a static religious figure. I mean in simple, everyday incidents; where's the wisdom in the Legion episode? What did those innocent little pigies do to deserve death? Where's the tolerance to the fig tree that Jesus makes wither away? Where's the wisdom, too, in expecting a fig tree to bear figs out of season? Where's the tolerance in threatening and insulting people who refuse to listen to him? I'm not talking about miracles, just some damned common sense.

They also thrived in a society where slavery was rampant. As far as I know, none of them were abolitionists in spirit. Plato's ideas in The Republic is just bout as inhumane as you could possibly get in regards to how society should be organized. They did plant the early seeds of democracy, though their contradition was lounging around the markets and open areas teaching while thousands slaved on.

I agree Plato is inhumane (and it's unfortunate that he spoke so often through Socrates), but should wise men necessarily be visionaries beyond their own time? Socrates questioned many things of his time, and others he didn't. All the evidence about him still leads me to assume he had better sense than to expect a fig tree to blossom out of season. And he didn't believe in everlasting damnantion, which gains points with me.

Jefferson once wrote that in the future, most people of faith would be Unitarians. They would possess the wonders of faith, while holding the literal pronunciations of say....a Paul at arms length. the world would be better off(especially in the middl east) if this were carried out.

I could live in a world where Rational Unitarianism thrived, if there weren't other options.

 

[Flor]

Big Nope to that one

But I would never try to take that notion away from another person, or child. Life is brutal and he will learn that, though not directly from me. Tis not for me to give him a fantastical notion nor to strip him of it. I have toyed with the idea of attending the Unitarian services here. Nice congregation, opportunities for service, and they have a tremendous book and bake sale each year.

 

[lunablu63]

Religion is Man's way of explaining where he came from and who he is.
I myself am amazed at the hypocrisy of religion in general. Everyone thinks that their religion is the correct one and all others are wrong. For example, if a Christian is having troubles/calamity in his/her life, they loudly proclaim that God is testing them. However, if a non-Christian is experiencing trials an tribulation, they procaim God is punishing them.I have found in my life that religious people for the most part are highy hypocritical and judgemental, and it extends to all aspects of their lives. It also seems to cloud their reason and senses. A woman I work with, (highly religious) gave me a pencil that had an eraser on both ends and the statement-"Life without Jesus is like this pencil-no point to it". Now, does this mean that if I don't have Jesus in my life, I should kill myself, as there is no point to my life? Or that I should believe in fairy tales to give my life a point of meaning? This same woman is mocking and self-righteous often to the point of insensibility and dingy as a broken bell. For the most part,Ii like her and she can be very sweet, giving, and helpful, but her intolerance galls me. How Christian is that. She recently had her son's 16th birthday dinner at Hooters (!) and teased him the whole evening about their waitresses breasts, to the point of really embarring her son. Like most religious people I know, she has selective Christianity, as it suits her. Her husband belongs to a group of police officers called "God's Posse", which makes me think of them as patrolling about the country-side lynching the non-believers.
I just don't buy into religion, although as I child I did. As I grew older, and more questioning, I broke away from following blindly everything that was fed to me by "the Establishment", and found that I could often be a kinder, more tolerant person unblinded by the pablum fed to me as a child.
Religion has done more for greed, intolerance, dishonesty, and war than most people are willing to admit. Granted, there are those who got only good out of religious beliefs, (Mother Theresa, et al), but many use it as a shield for deceit, greed and ill-will.
I don't deny anyone their right to believe as they wish. We are all agents of free will and have the right to choose our beliefs for ourselves.
These sights are very interesting to explore. The second one is a foundation started by a former pastor...
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.html
http://ffrf.org/index2.php

 

[lunablu63]

Religion is Man's way of explaining where he came from and who he is.
I myself am amazed at the hypocrisy of religion in general. Everyone thinks that their religion is the correct one and all others are wrong. For example, if a Christian is having troubles/calamity in his/her life, they loudly proclaim that God is testing them. However, if a non-Christian is experiencing trials an tribulation, they proclaim God is punishing them.I have found in my life that religious people for the most part are highy hypocritical and judgemental, and it extends to all aspects of their lives. It also seems to cloud their reason and senses. A woman I work with, (highly religious) gave me a pencil that had an eraser on both ends and the statement-"Life without Jesus is like this pencil-no point to it". Now, does this mean that if I don't have Jesus in my life, I should kill myself, as there is no point to my life? Or that I should believe in fairy tales to give my life a point of meaning? This same woman is mocking and self-righteous often to the point of insensibility and dingy as a broken bell. For the most part,Ii like her and she can be very sweet, giving, and helpful, but her intolerance galls me. How Christian is that? She recently had her son's 16th birthday dinner at Hooters (!) and teased him the whole evening about their waitresses breasts, to the point of really embarring her son. Like most religious people I know, she has selective Christianity, as it suits her. Her husband belongs to a group of police officers called "God's Posse", which makes me think of them as patrolling about the country-side lynching the non-believers.
I just don't buy into religion, although as I child I did. As I grew older, and more questioning, I broke away from following blindly everything that was fed to me by "the Establishment", and found that I could often be a kinder, more tolerant person unblinded by the pablum fed to me as a child.
Religion has done more for greed, intolerance, dishonesty, and war than most people are willing to admit. Granted, there are those who got only good out of religious beliefs, (Mother Theresa, et al), but many use it as a shield for deceit, greed and ill-will.
I don't deny anyone their right to believe as they wish. We are all agents of free will and have the right to choose our beliefs for ourselves.
These sights are very interesting to explore. The second one is a foundation started by a former pastor...
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.html
http://ffrf.org/index2.php