Be careful what you write - especially in school

[Motokid]

Jumping to the wrong conclusion or, based on what's happened in the past, is there something to be concerned about here?

What I don't understand is at one point they say the journals were not meant to be read, but then it says something about having to be turned in for assignment.

Which is it?

All in all, I'd say it's never smart to write down in words about killing somebody specific for a random school writing exercise.

 

[abecedarian]

That's why I'm careful when I have my kids do journal entries as school assignments. For the highschoolers one year, I gave them each a different book with journal/creative writing prompts and told them they could pick and choose, but had to write each day, and that it would be checked(read by dad) for grammar, punctuation, and spelling. They had a blast, and it was interesting to see what they did with those prompts.
I don't like to have them write their deepest, darkest secrets for me to "grade." If the idea is to get them in the habit of writing every day through journaling, they need and deserve a little privacy. If the goal is to have them write daily for a grade, then they should be told up-front, and not lied to as this teacher did. These boys were testing the teacher and she flunked.

 

[Motokid]

I'm not sure we know the full story. It's hard to tell who's lying. Certainly the boys could be don't you think? If the teacher told the kids the journals were to be handed in for assignments, but not graded that does not mean they are private diaries does it?

How can you expect anything to be handed in, and then not be read?

If it's a prank it's in very bad taste. Much like joking on an airplane that you have a bomb in your suitcase. These days I would expect everybody to know better, especially high school aged kids. These are not elementary school kids.

 

[abecedarian]

I'm not sure we know the full story. It's hard to tell who's lying. Certainly the boys could be don't you think? If the teacher told the kids the journals were to be handed in for assignments, but not graded that does not mean they are private diaries does it?

How can you expect anything to be handed in, and then not be read?

If it's a prank it's in very bad taste. Much like joking on an airplane that you have a bomb in your suitcase. These days I would expect everybody to know better, especially high school aged kids. These are not elementary school kids.

It's possible the boys are lying, and maybe you're right they should have known the journals might be read. And as a "prank" it's a stupid one. I just think the teacher should make it clear how a journal entry is going to be treated. I know with my own kids, it is very hard to know how far to allow freedom of expression, just to get them to write. My kids have never written anything like the entry these boys did, but they sure have expressed bad thoughts about their siblings! So, how am I supposed to treat entries like that? Just let them rant, since they're not causing bruises or drawing blood, for a change, and they're doing the stupid journal entry I asked for already? Or be a mom and deal with the conflict they're expressing?

 

[Motokid]

I'm not sure I recall to many homeschool shooting rampages making news lately. The problem is public schools have some reasonable expectation to provide safety for the students and teachers. No matter how the text was discovered is there cause for alarm? To name a specific teacher, and to be so vicious in the description has to ring an alarm somewhere doesn't it?

Or does it?

If this text was ignored, and then sometime later the teacher was found murdered by these boys would there be an outcry from all the public about why this kind of text was ignored?

There's a double edged sword here. We need SFG to chime in. He's a teacher. I'd love to know what school administrators feel is their duty to protect in an instance like this?

 

[abecedarian]

There was a formerly home schooled boy who shot up a school a couple of years ago. I think it was in Washington or somewhere on the west coast. He had been fascinated with guns, and his parents were wierd, as I recall. It can happen.

 

[Kookamoor]

Just let them rant, since they're not causing bruises or drawing blood, for a change, and they're doing the stupid journal entry I asked for already? Or be a mom and deal with the conflict they're expressing?

They know you're reading it, right? It's probably a way for them to get you to know about some of the 'injustices' that they perceive in the family life. Perhaps you should just indicate that if they want to talk about these things they should let you know. Otherwise just let them rant. I used to rant in my journal all the time growing up because it let out my frustrations and frequently allowed me to see the other side of the situation. I didn't want to talk to anyone about these things, I just wanted to express myself. I think this is healthy and something you'd probably want your kids to continue doing, rather than have them think that they shouldn't write about such things because otherwise Mum will do something about them. It's probably a really good trust building exercise because of this too. They're letting you know their feelings, but trusting you to keep it to yourself unless they choose otherwise.

 

[Kookamoor]

John Marsden's 'So Much to Tell You' is about a girl who keeps a journal just like this. It's required as part of the English class, and the teacher checks to make sure they are writing in it, but the journals aren't written.

I expect these kids were doing little more than thinking they were smart. I recall in first year university having professors that YOU KNEW didn't read your essays. To 'show them' you'd put something in the middle of a block of text that was completely ridiculous, just so you could show your friends that the prof was an idiot. They probably thought they were so smart doing this, and egged each other on to make it more and more graphic (as the article says).

As to what sort of rights a teacher would have, I have no idea. Is it like doing a search without a warrant? Or did these journals become the property of the teacher when submitted? Or is there a verbal agreement that the content won't be read? Is that any stronger because this is a teacher? I have no idea - tricky issues. I would imagine if the crime was a little more realistic, for example elaborate plans for how to shoot up a school, complete with a death list, maps, scenarios etc, then it would be easier to judge.

 

[abecedarian]

They know you're reading it, right? It's probably a way for them to get you to know about some of the 'injustices' that they perceive in the family life. Perhaps you should just indicate that if they want to talk about these things they should let you know. Otherwise just let them rant. I used to rant in my journal all the time growing up because it let out my frustrations and frequently allowed me to see the other side of the situation. I didn't want to talk to anyone about these things, I just wanted to express myself. I think this is healthy and something you'd probably want your kids to continue doing, rather than have them think that they shouldn't write about such things because otherwise Mum will do something about them. It's probably a really good trust building exercise because of this too. They're letting you know their feelings, but trusting you to keep it to yourself unless they choose otherwise.

That's pretty much how I chose, and still choose, to handle it. I want them to develope the habit of writing their thoughts without fear of censure.

 

[Motokid]

gluing the teacher naked to a wall and cutting off her feet, and killing her family while she watches, according to court documents

"I am planning on coming in your room late one night while you're still working," reads one partial entry. "I will smother you in gasoline and light your head on fire."

Pretty elaborate detail to me....how much more would be needed to scare you if you read it and you were the teacher mentioned?

 

[Kookamoor]

Pretty elaborate detail to me....how much more would be needed to scare you if you read it and you were the teacher mentioned?

I more meant that such a grotesque crime would be unusual whereas a school shooting would (unfortunately) not be. I think people would be more willing to accept that there was a real risk with the latter. A shame. I agree that reading these passages would scare the hell out of me if it were about me.

Here's my scenario on how she read it: The journals are handed in. The teacher gives them a quick flick through to make sure that students are filling them in. As she goes through them she notices her name in one of the books and stops to read it.

That sounds pretty natural. It doesn't sound like a breach of privacy so much if that is the case. Okay, so she probably shouldn't have 'looked closer', but honestly, if you had to hand the journals in wouldn't you think that there's a chance that part of them might be read?? The boys are insensitive idiots. But are they criminals?? I don't know.

 

[Motokid]

The boys are insensitive idiots. But are they criminals?? I don't know.

And that's my question. Regardless of how the text was "discovered" is there cause for alarm, and should there be action taken?

Could you, as a teacher, ignore something like this? What's the proper thing to do?

Certainly the smartest thing for kids to do is not joke about things of this nature. Especially when it's something that gets handed in for others to inspect, read, authorise, check, __________(fill in the blank).

 

[novella]

It clearly says the boys were not criminally charged.

They apparently knew the teacher would read the journals, but that the content would not be graded. In light of this, if I were the teacher I would definitely perceive a threat and be afraid.

The process in any school would be for the teacher to express her concerns to the principal and for them all to have a meeting and probably call the parents in, and to ask the boys why they wrote these scenarios, what they were thinking, etc. If the boys had apologized at that point and had no history of hostility toward the teach, it might well have been forgotten.

We don't know whether they were hostile in the past to the same teacher. We don't know whether they were violent in other circumstances. We don't know their pasts with that teacher. So it's very hard to tell why they would be suspended and face explusion.

I know that post Columbine the rules at my son's school re threats and bomb scares and talking about planned violent actions are completely different and more strict. They will immediately call the local or state police in if, say, someone writes a threatening note or talks about hurting other kids or teachers.

 

[Motokid]

always glad to see you novella....always