conservatism and decadence

[saliotthomas]

Or how hard is it nowdays to find where one stand.
I grow up thinking i was left wing,we where the good guys,we wanted to share,to help and then the left came to power and they were just like the others.
So i started questioning my most intimate belief,seing the wrong one do when being sure is working for the good.
I still believe ultra liberalisme is bad,but the alternative is'nt much better.
I see good intentioned people coming to Morocco scandalized by children labour,10 years old learning a trade,mechanic,welding,ect.
In a brave new world they would be better in school,but her and now they learn a job that is going to feed them the rest of there life.Growing up in France it's killing me to see them,but i also wander if teaching craft in Europe would not be a good idea.I don't know of un unemployed plumber,or mechanic in France.
Do we not have a problem of sur intellectualism in Occident?
The criticism applied to the veiled women in muslim country by people who doesn't mind seeing 12 years old girls with G-string sticking out of there jean's is out of place.Both sicken me!
So i sometime catch myself having the consevative ideas of an old-fart,as well as the progressive mind of BO-BO(french designation of Bourgois-Boheme,or Yuppie-hippy),highly Schizophrenic or signe of time?

 

[beer good]

In a brave new world they would be better in school,but her and now they learn a job that is going to feed them the rest of there life.Growing up in France it's killing me to see them,but i also wander if teaching craft in Europe would not be a good idea.I don't know of un unemployed plumber,or mechanic in France.

Your point about child labour is interesting; yes, it's not a good thing in and of itself, but it's not like the kids working 12 hour-days in sweatshops would get a chance to go to school and watch cartoons all day if the factory closed; they're doing it because they have to. The situation must be addressed, but it's more complex than simply shutting the sweatshops down.

On the other hand... we can't all be plumbers and mechanics (both of which, by the way, are a lot more advanced jobs today than just 20 or 50 years ago; you can't fix a modern car with just a wrench and a hammer). People in the service industry will always have jobs, true - at least as long as the rest of the economy thrives too. But with a world economy becoming increasingly international, knowledge becomes a VERY valuable commodity. A factory in a Western country, for instance, with the accompanying high wages and high cost of living, cannot compete with a factory in a poorer country on cost alone; they need to compete by being more advanced, by staying ahead. That requires training, education, technological advances.

Do we not have a problem of sur intellectualism in Occident?

I'm sorry, a problem of what where? Are you saying people in the West are too intellectual, or not enough, and what do you mean by intellectualism in this case?

 

[saliotthomas]

The child labour is a probleme,it's just the way it is adressed by people projecting their own way of life to a completly different society that bothers me.
As for sur-intellectualism,i mean the way most craftmanship is underestimated in education.Mechanic is a bad exemple as it as become computerized,but it is very difficult to find most of the small trade that use to make the life more interresting,people working wood,stone,even shoe maker.whe do not fix,we just throw away.
I case of general electricity failure most people are lost,i know a good few guy who can't build a fire.I Know it's exteme but it show how far we are gone.
A 12 years old today know far more things,than i use to we i was 20,or knows how to access that knowledge.He also is critic as truthfulness of the informations he recive,been use to manipulaton of information.

 

[beer good]

Sure, craftmanship is important, but I don't see why we should have to choose one or the other. (My dictionary lists "Sur" as a town in Southern Lebanon, I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. ) The simple truth is that people weigh quality against cost; if it's cheaper to buy something new of shoddy quality than to fix something old, a lot of people are going to buy something new. That's capitalism for you.

At the same time, I definitely think you have a point somewhere; I remember a few years ago when the entire town I worked in was blacked out - not only could we not work since the computers and phones were down, but there was no work to do since those computers and phones were what our company DID. When the electricity went, our jobs simply ceased to exist. That is creepy; in the event of a global recession or worse, most of my education and professional experience will be utterly useless. But at the same time, if nobody had the education and experience to be able to charge high wages, we'd HAVE a global recession or worse. While it's tempting to dream of what it might be like if we could go back to a simpler economy, I don't see it happening.

A 12 years old today know far more things,than i use to we i was 20,or knows how to access that knowledge.He also is critic as truthfulness of the informations he recive,been use to manipulaton of information.

Exactly how much critical thinking a 12-year-old is capable of is up for debate. But he wouldn't have had access to that information if not for education and advances in technology, and he's definitely going to need a lot more than just craftmanship to learn how to find the right information and how to use it. "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing," as the quote goes.

 

[saliotthomas]

I'm not saying back to all craft,just a little bit more.There is a back to the roots wave that could create a lot of jobs opportunities(traditionnal bread,head made thing's,...)to conter-balance the all factory way.
Over-intellectualized? would that do maybe?I'm just saying that there might be a way to slow down the all-high-tech choice of life.
I learned a lot while travelling about the way my own country might have been 50 or 100 years ago and not all was bad.
We live in a world of paradox,where high-tech communication kills communication,information miss-informe;ect....
The 12 years old learns in school,but more and more by himself,often instinctively-the brain ot the young ones is expending alarmingly fast,school is only one of the many source of knowledge.
Man is by nature a clever beast.(no allway at is best)

 

[SFG75]

When you're younger, your idealism would work if others would just "get it." Then you get a job and realize that you really had no clue as to how the world worked and how certain provisions to help people(a patronizing view if there ever was one) was really something they didn't like, nor was in their best interest! you either give up and become a cmplete cynic, or you become a radical moderate.