Flag burning

[SFG75]

I post this as an Iowa teenager has been arrested for flag desecration, which is an Iowa law. Personally, I believe he should be charged with vandalism if the flag wasn't his own and if he did it on state/federal property. I do believe that flag burning constitutes free speech as it conveys an idea.

So what do you guys think? Should the kid be punished? Should anyone else who does it as a form of protest be prosecuted? I'd especially like to hear of our Euro friends on this, you don't hear much about this "problem" on the other side of the Atlantic pond.

 

[MonkeyCatcher]

I think that the kid shoud have been charged for vandalism and arson, but I don't think that he should be charged with flag desecration. I think that people should have to right to do that (to their own flag, of course), although I don't really think that it's a very intelligent nor effective form of protest.

There was a case similar to this in New Zealand about a year back. A Maori (a native of New Zealand) was a bit shirty because our Government had refused to hand all of the foreshore to the Maoris, and so he shot up a flag on camera during Waitangi Day (the equivalent to 4th of July). Although I think that vadalising a flag may be against the law, he was only done for having a firearm without a license.

 

[Shade]

Arson I think only applies to buildings etc, MC.

I agree anyway. Having a specific crime of desecrating the flag is a little pathetic in the 21st century. What are we, savages who worship a symbol?

It's not really an issue over here, SFG. I don't even know if it's a crime in the UK, and if it is, I've never heard of anyone being prosecuted for it. Ironically of course, if it wasn't a specific law with taboo qualities in (some?) US states, it would be a much less provocative gesture and less appealing to protestors, and would happen less often as a result.

 

[beer good]

My gut reaction is that it's ridiculous to have a law against it; a flag is a piece of cloth, and if it weren't for the "taboo" issue as mentioned by Shade, no one would bother burning it. (Fun fact: the only thing Swedish law says about burning flags, AFAIK, is that flags that are too worn or bleached to be used in public SHOULD be burned rather than thrown in the trash. I don't think I've ever heard of the Swedish flag being burned in protest against anything.)

Then again, I came to think about people who burn books or records they don't like, something that always gets me furious. In both cases, you are burning a symbol for an idea, as if saying that you believe it should be wiped from the face of the earth - which is a pretty ugly thing to do, and not something that should be done too lightly. However, in both cases I definitely think it deserves to be met with words, not jail time. No one should go to jail for a political opinion.

MC, just out of curiosity - what's New Zealanders' view of their flag in general? Considering that it's a commonwealth flag, do you think of it as YOUR flag?

 

[Madeline]

As an American, I respect the flag.

 

[Samerron]

For me, it doesn't really matter for me. The flag is just a symbol and buring the flag is another symbol. Symbols mean nothing unless they are effective in a certain action.

 

[abecedarian]

Legalities aside for the moment, I find it offensive to see any nation's flag burned. I think of the men and women who fought and died to create the nations that flag symbolizes and it offends me to see their sacrifices treated with such contempt. I understand the "free speech" arguements, but its a pretty low form of expression.

 

[Litany]

There's also plenty of atrocities committed in the name of that self same flag, and if the flag was bright pink and covered with happy little dinosaurs then people would still fight and argue over the sodding thing. Meh. It's just a bit of cloth.

 

[MonkeyCatcher]

MC, just out of curiosity - what's New Zealanders' view of their flag in general? Considering that it's a commonwealth flag, do you think of it as YOUR flag?

I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say that it is a commonwealth flag. We have the Union Jack in the corner, yes, but the flag itself is very much unique (even though it does look strikingly similar to the Aussie flag. They copied us, I swear ). The flag isn't overly important to us, I don't think - it is pretty ugly. The silver fern is a more common and loved symbol for our country (and the kiwi, of course).

We are not overly patriotic here - we obviouisly don't like losing in sport or having the country slammed by someone, but people can criticise the Government etc as much as they want without it being too much of a scandal. We realise that no country is perfect.

 

[mehastings]

I am absolutely against punishment of anyone who chooses to burn the American (or any other, for that matter) flag. As far as I'm concerned, property is property, and once you've paid for it, you can do as you desire as long as you aren't putting yourself, others or other people's property into danger. It is a political statement intended to say "just because I live here doesn't mean I support everything my governement does", which is a very common feeling these days.

I do recognize the flag as a symbol, but as Litany mentioned, its symbolism doesn't end at freedom and social liberties. America is viewed by many people as being oppressive and selective in their foreign policy. Our government thinks nothing of violating international (and even its own) laws, and is even willing to create new laws to rationalize its bad behavior.

My grandfather fought in WWII, my great-grandfather in WWI. My great-great-great grandfather fought in the American Civil War. I feel that one of the rights and freedoms they were "fighting to protect" was my right to burn a flag if I want to.

If we as a country are going to take a strike at Freedom of Speech, there are a few things I think we should go for before burning the flag:

Matthew Shepherd Funeral Pic

Protestor and three small children

Blackface Aunt Jemmima costume (doubly insulting)