Foreign sentences and words

[malena2006]

My characters are cosmopolitan, polyglot and my story takes place in different countries, therefore I tend to include terms and full sentences in foreign languages. The protagonist and her family use a sort of personal lingo that mixes word from several languages. To me, raised in a bilingual home, it seems natural, but I know it might be confusing to readers, and yet I feel it provides flavor, identifies characters through their speech, and solves the problem of having all characters using the same voice. Am I wrong?
Do foreign words always need translation? What about song lyrics? In the novel I am reading the author includes phrases (not sentences) in Italian, and does not translate or even explain.
I was told I should write foreign word/sentence in italics, and then follow them with the translation among parentheses. Is that correct?

 

[petron]

re: foreign words . . .

Hi, Malena. I agree that foreign words and phrases should appear in italics but it seems to me providing a translation in brackets afterwards could get awkward. Suggestion: through context (replies/comments on foreign words but in English) from characters involved when the words are spoken make the meaning clear to the reader. Hope this is a good idea for you.

 

[malena2006]

Thanks, I am trying to do that

Hi, Malena. I agree that foreign words and phrases should appear in italics but it seems to me providing a translation in brackets afterwards could get awkward. Suggestion: through context (replies/comments on foreign words but in English) from characters involved when the words are spoken make the meaning clear to the reader. Hope this is a good idea for you.

but it doesn´t work all the time

 

[petron]

yes, an interesting problem . . .

It's tough to talk about without being more specific. I'm writing a novel set in the Philippines and have several times brought in Tagalog, the Philippine native tongue. Usually, from context the meaning is clear. Maybe I'm using a lot less of the other language than you are. But, also, I think there are times when the meaning can remain mysterious. Here's an example, from one of my paragraphs:

It was time. The fellow in there had sweated for six hours with no information on why he was being held. He would be as ready as a plate of burong mustasa, oil and lily.

Hmmmm. Good question!

 

[petron]

a PS on problem of clarity with foreign language . . .

Sorry! Just thot of another angle here . . . in today's movies there's a tendency to not translate foreign words (via subtitles in English). Body language, gesture, mood tend to carry a meaning, and a little mystery is good. So, perhaps in your work some of what you are troubled by can be left mysterious. The main concern is coherence overall, but the fictional form is and should be mysterious to some extent, don't you think?

 

[malena2006]

That is another contradiction

Sorry! Just thot of another angle here . . . in today's movies there's a tendency to not translate foreign words (via subtitles in English). Body language, gesture, mood tend to carry a meaning, and a little mystery is good. So, perhaps in your work some of what you are troubled by can be left mysterious. The main concern is coherence overall, but the fictional form is and should be mysterious to some extent, don't you think?

one´s text is suppose to be mysterious, but everytime a friend reads my novel they start "I don´t understand this" "What does it mean?" and not only are they confused by foreign expressions but also by literary or historical allussions.
Here are a couple of examples of how I use non-English expressions in my novel

Betsy seems surprised “E vuoi fare l’amore con Orlando ?(and you want to make love to Orlando?)” She sometimes thinks her sister is made of marble and has no libido.

"If I were you I would seek for a strong abogador, someone who would plead your case and deal with Simone, man to man.”

All Donna Speranza asked was to keep her Castello, her radio and the services of Giulianna Belloni, who had been her personal maid for a quarter of a century.

“Oh I am sorry! I am so atolondrada. That means ‘scatterbrain’ by the way” Gabriela turns the picture so the girls may see it. “Isn’t she lovely?”

“We are a sect” Noor explains cautiously “Our religion is secret. Only the uqhal ,the Wise Ones know it. We are the juqhal, the Ignorant Ones, but someday I hope to become an uqhal..

“That´s all a perkante needs to know” she said “what song to sing, what prayer to recite, where to place her loving hands to drive all evil away.”

 

[petron]

yes . . . versus mystification

Seems to me you solved the problem of coherence in all the examples except this one:

Betsy seems surprised “E vuoi fare l’amore con Orlando ?(and you want to make love to Orlando?)” She sometimes thinks her sister is made of marble and has no libido.

I would try to cut the parenthetical and express more of the meaning in the followup where Betsy thinks about her sister. Suppose you start with her reply in the foreign language and follow with a thought that her sister's wanting to make love to Orlando shocks her because . . . The reader can then get the sense of what the words mean and appreciate the flavor in the foreign language . . .

 

[malena2006]

I am going over my manuscript ....

Seems to me you solved the problem of coherence in all the examples except this one:

Betsy seems surprised “E vuoi fare l’amore con Orlando ?(and you want to make love to Orlando?)” She sometimes thinks her sister is made of marble and has no libido.

I would try to cut the parenthetical and express more of the meaning in the followup where Betsy thinks about her sister. Suppose you start with her reply in the foreign language and follow with a thought that her sister's wanting to make love to Orlando shocks her because . . . The reader can then get the sense of what the words mean and appreciate the flavor in the foreign language . . .

....and ridding it of parenthetical translations, either by explaining the term or just leaving it untranslated. However, I have a scene in a chapter I recently wrote where the protagonists are at a public place and everybody appears to be overhearing their conversation. The heroine then switches into Italian, but her husband continues using English.

“Si, ” Ettie is relieved. At least he has brought the divorce issue out in the open. “non posso vivere cosi. Non sopporto questa incertezza. Non ti sopporto piu.” (I can’t live like this. I can’t stand this uncertainty. I can’t stand you.)
She stops, aghast at her own words. She didn’t mean to be so blunt, but part of her is elated at seeing the shock in his face
“Well, ” he desperately tries to compose himself, “I would have never guessed it.”
………………………….
“No, mogliettina mia, ” the mocking tone is back, “either you live in sin or resign yourself to be a grass widow. No divorce from me.”
She hates him for ridiculing her, for calling her “mogliettina” in such a possessive tone, for speaking in English so everyone learns about her private life.”

I know the easy way out would be to say “They are speaking in Italian “ and go on in English, but it sounds fake.

 

[petron]

Verrrry interesting! . . .

“Si, ” Ettie is relieved. At least he has brought the divorce issue out in the open. “non posso vivere cosi. Non sopporto questa incertezza. Non ti sopporto piu.” (I can’t live like this. I can’t stand this uncertainty. I can’t stand you.)

She stops, aghast at her own words. She didn’t mean to be so blunt, but part of her is elated at seeing the shock in his face
“Well, ” he desperately tries to compose himself, “I would have never guessed it.”

~~~

Very nice problem here to think about. I agree that saying "They are speaking Italian" would lessen the power of the scene. On the other hand using parenthesis distracts the reader to the writer and clutters things up.

I would again try to get a sense of her powerful words in the follow-up where "She stops, aghast at her own words. Non ti supporto piu-- Does she really mean that she can't stand him? A tear fights at her eyelid (sorry . . . got carried away!) Let the surround to the foreign language carry the meaning or hint at it.

I like reading the Italian even tho I don't understand it. These excerpts are intriguing. Good for you. This work is coming right along!

Petron

 

[malena2006]

¡I wish all my readers turn out to be as undestanding as you are!

“Si, ” Ettie is relieved. At least he has brought the divorce issue out in the open. “non posso vivere cosi. Non sopporto questa incertezza. Non ti sopporto piu.” (I can’t live like this. I can’t stand this uncertainty. I can’t stand you.)

She stops, aghast at her own words. She didn’t mean to be so blunt, but part of her is elated at seeing the shock in his face
“Well, ” he desperately tries to compose himself, “I would have never guessed it.”

~~~

Very nice problem here to think about. I agree that saying "They are speaking Italian" would lessen the power of the scene. On the other hand using parenthesis distracts the reader to the writer and clutters things up.

I would again try to get a sense of her powerful words in the follow-up where "She stops, aghast at her own words. Non ti supporto piu-- Does she really mean that she can't stand him? A tear fights at her eyelid (sorry . . . got carried away!) Let the surround to the foreign language carry the meaning or hint at it.

I like reading the Italian even tho I don't understand it. These excerpts are intriguing. Good for you. This work is coming right along!

Petron

I agree. Parenthesis are cumbersome. I´ll kep them only for single terms, and not for full sentences, and the way you composed it makes it sound much more powerful