Indian Gods

[The waveguide]

Sometime ago I was searching for a film on Indian Deities here.

In that thread I was suggested to post a new thread on Indian Gods, so that through discussion it might be easier to understand the Indian Mythology. I gladly accepted this idea - and here I start with a question on my two favorite Gods, Ganesha and Hanuman.

Lets start from the beginning: from Birth.

With Hanuman, I am confused about his birth. In this link it is said that Hanuman is incarnation of Shiva. However, Shiva is not Hanuman- so he is not "incarnation", or "enflashment", of Shiva? I am missing here something very important in understanding of Indian philosophy.
Also, as i understood, two of his parents were mortal but "special mortals" - vanaras, humans with monkey tails? And thus Hanuman is also a vanara but also a God - did I get it right?

With Ganesha, birth is also confusing. In that link it is said that "Ganesha was generated by his mother Parvati without the intervention of her husband Shiva. Shiva, in fact, being eternal (Sadashiva), did not feel any need to have children. Consequently, the relationship of Ganesha and his mother is unique and special." But Ganesha's father is nontheles is Shiva, isn't he? What is the story of Ganesha's birth than?

 

[SFG75]

Be sure and check out the Bhagavad Gita, perhaps the greatest piece of writing to ever come out of India.

PM sent regarding a great person to converse with about this kind of thing. He can be found elsewhere as more complicated discussion is generally ill suited for forums not geared for such a thing.

 

[Occlith]

What is the story of Ganesha's birth than?

Scroll down that same wiki page to read more on Ganesha.

 

[Occlith]

In this link it is said that Hanuman is incarnation of Shiva. However, Shiva is not Hanuman- so he is not "incarnation", or "enflashment", of Shiva? I am missing here something very important in understanding of Indian philosophy.

http://hinduism.about.com/library/weekly/aa052801b.htm

 

[Gem]

Hiya Waveguide,

I've heard slight variations to the story of Ganesh's birth. First version goes along the lines of...Parvati had been praying for a very long time, when she got up her skin was all dry so she went to bathe in a lake. As she was bathing, the dust from her skin formed into a baby (yet another version says that Parvati made the baby from mud). The baby was Ganesh and at that point he didn't have his elephant head.

The other version is that Parvati wanted to bathe but she did not have any attendants, so she created Ganesh from dust or mud or tumeric paste(?) so that he would guard her while she bathed.
Shiva is Ganesh's father simply because he is Parvati's husband.

As for Hanuman, I had known he was an incarnation of a God, but I didn't think it was Shiva - I 'm sure it was another god, but I can't think of the name. But then again there is a chance that that God was himself an incarnation of Shiva so...hmm..Reincarnation - sure causes alot of confusion

 

[The waveguide]

Namaste Gem, Occlith and SFG75.

Thanks for your replies. It is all very confusing.
I followed a link by Occlith and again this reincarnation thing was the hardest. It is claimed that for help of Rama, Lord Brahma commanded some reincarnations:
"Indra was reincarnated as Bali, Surya as Sugriva, Vrihaspati as Tara, and Pavana, the god of wind was reborn as Hanuman, the wisest, swiftest and strongest of all apes."

While a bit later it also says:
"Thus Lord Shiva incarnated as a monkey, and was born as Hanuman to Anjana, by the blessings of Pavana, who thus became Hanuman's godfather."

So it is still not clear regarding whose incarnation Hanuman is/was, and what does it actually mean? Because Hanuman is worshiped on his own, as a God, while Shiva and Pavana are also stand-alone Gods. My western logic says to me that if Hanuman is other's God incarnation, than I am better to worship the other God (the one who contributed his incarnation), or all of his incarnation simultaneously because at the end it is ONE (the SAME God.) But they are all worshiped on their own, independently, aren't they?

How do Indians know all the mythology by themselves? Do they have some children books explaining to them who-is-who-and whose incarnation?

All this story reminds me some Roger Zelazny's fantasy, but much more complicated. Also this is what it makes it so interesting to investigate!

 

[Gem]

Waveguide,

I have a few books on the Ramayana, I'll take a look and see if they shed any further light on the whole Hanuman thing.

As for how do Indian children learn - through storytelling mainly,the myths were spread orally in any case - which is why there are always slightly different versions available. Plus I'm guessing that while most Indian children (and adults) have a general overview of the myths, only a small number are aware of the intricate details. Of course I'm generalising grossly.

 

[Gem]

Hiya Waveguide,

The confusion over Hanuman is caused by there being apparently two sets of scriptures. One set has him as being an incarnation of Vayu (God of Wind) and the other set has him as being the son of Vayu but the incarnation of Shiva who wanted to help out Lord Vishnu who was incarnated as Rama.

 

[The waveguide]

Hiya Waveguide,

The confusion over Hanuman is caused by there being apparently two sets of scriptures. One set has him as being an incarnation of Vayu (God of Wind) and the other set has him as being the son of Vayu but the incarnation of Shiva who wanted to help out Lord Vishnu who was incarnated as Rama.

Thanks! The puzzle is solved! How did you find that out?
You also mentioned that you have some Ramayana books. Is it a translation? Can you recommend on a good one?

Also if I remember correctly you once mentioned that there are not any movies on Indian mythology. Have you seen this one here?
I wondered if it is worthy to see and how close is it to the real Mahabharata story ?

 

[Gem]

Waveguide,

How did you find that out?

I just asked somebody
Thanks for the link to that film, I must say was very surprised - a European version no less. No I haven't seen it - I wasn't even aware of it.
I've seen some of the episodes from the tv version of the Ramayana and the Mahabharata, but never a movie version. I wonder how on earth they'd fit everything into something of movie length, the tv series was as I recall hundreds of episodes long for both the tales.
I'll post you some links with regards to the books.

 

[agathafan]

There are lots of movies about Hindu mythology but they are in regional Indian languages.

Hinduism is a very old religion and initially Hindus were worshipper of natural forces and elements as god and goddess, such as 'Varuna' is the god of water and 'Indra' is the god of thunder. After that many regional gods and goddess and different rituals were included in Hinduism. Today the number of hindu gods and goddesses are 330000000. It is not only impossible to remember all of them but also the rituals associated with them.

It is not at all nessessory to remember the name of all gods, because principal god or goddess vary from region to region. Bengalis worship 'Durga' and 'Kaali', Biharis worship 'Ram', Marwaris worship 'Ganesha' and so on.

Again there are 'Istadevatas'(a person can worship a definite god or goddess according to his or her choice).

Hinduism is a very complex religion and people has to do special research to understand Hindu gods and goddesses.

I also don't know the name of all gods and goddesses (although I'm Hindu)
and I don't feel it nessessory.

I just want to share a information with you "My Istadevata is Maa Durga"

 

[The waveguide]

Today the number of hindu gods and goddesses are 330000000. It is not only impossible to remember all of them but also the rituals associated with them.

Wow! 330000000 sounds really A LOT!

But anyways, I guess that all Hindu know at least the basic story - the world creation and the main Gods, do not they? Actually I am familiar with greek mythology and I know most of the Gods, their stories and their relations. I wanted to get familiar at least to that extent also with Hindu mythology. But with Greek mythology, I had many nice books - some of those I read as a kid, they were well suited for that age. But with Hinduism I have a problem to find a good and understandable literature


I have also one question. There is this animal that one could see everywhere in north-middle India:

Somebody told us a story that this chipmunk left a sign on a shoulder of one God. May be you know which God and what is the story around?

 

[agathafan]

When god 'Rama' was Trying to go to Sri Lanka from India to rescue his wife 'Sita' from the prison of rakshasha raja or king 'Ravana' he had to make a bridge to cross the Indian Ocean.

Everyone in his group was helping him to costruct the bridge. They brought big trees, huge quantity of earth etc. But that small squirrel brought a little sand to help 'Rama'. 'Rama' was touched by the squirrel's intention and patted the squirrel. It is the sign, that left on the back of the squirrel.

If you want to know about Hindu mythology you must read full version of 'Mahabharata' and if you want to know about the Philosopy related to Hinduism you can read 'Shrimatbhagabata' or 'Geeta'

 

[Gem]

Waveguide,

For books, look up the author W J Wilkins. His stuff may be the type of thing you are looking for. If however you're looking for more scholarly work then I'd suggest looking up K.M Sen - he was a leading authority on Indian literature and folklore.