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IQ and your children and yourself...

S

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HI, guys, not sure where i should put this topic. so just put it here as a casual general chatting one.

Just read a post about misspelling thing, which caused my interests in your opinion on IQ? What would you think if your kids were said to be a retarded one? or a normal one or a gifted one? would you often believe in that kind of tests? would a score of IQ bring some unexpected negative or positive effects on your kids or your family? Do you take IQ when you grew up or apply for a positioin in some company? any opinioin is welcomed. Thank you. :)
 
I posted over there, so might as well post here as a follow-up. :rolleyes:

Of course it's nice when someone compliments your child, whether on his manners or his schoolwork, but the IQ score as a measure of potential has been largely discredited since the 1980s or so. Now there is widespread acknowledgement that there are different kinds of intelligence that are not measured by the old IQ test. And also that how well a child does in school is directly correlated to how much support he/she gets outside school.

The reverence for the IQ test was particularly destructive to kids who scored well as little ones and were pushed academically and yet never learned how to socialize, communicate, empathize, and understand their skills in context.

Al Gore addresses this very subject re himself v. W in a recent New Yorker article, pointing out that W. is very gifted with certain types of nonacademic intelligence.
 
novella said:
Al Gore addresses this very subject re himself v. W in a recent New Yorker article, pointing out that W. is very gifted with certain types of nonacademic intelligence.
Click to expand...

Eating peanuts and swinging from a tree by one arm?
 
I've only ever once had to take an IQ test as part of a job interview. Funnily enough, I had the highest score they'd ever seen, but didn't get the job! :) Of course, after they insisted I take their little test, I didn't want the job, so that may have influenced how the balance of the interview played out.

As a youngster I was identified by my school as "mentally gifted," placed in special programs, monitored, tracked, and generally made to feel awkward, out of place, and different. Now, my daughter is in third grade, which is when most schools in California identify students for their "Gifted and Talented" programs. Having seen her test scores, I know they are going to want to put her through the rigmarole too and, frankly, I'm very apprehensive. True, it's wonderful to have a child that's doing well in school, but she is just a child -- she's not yet a college applicant, a perspective employee, and she certainly isn't some school counselor's pet sociology project. While I want her to reach her potential, I also want her to have a normal growing up experience. It's a tough choice to make.

There's been a lot of controversy in California over standardized tests and what they can or cannot show about a child's intelligence or the effectiveness of classroom instruction. Each fall the newspapers go crazy printing the test scores and either proclaiming victory over ignorance or certain doom for entire generations of students. A test is a tool, one tool out of many, to show what children are capable of accomplishing. No test is comprehensive enough to say one kid should be groomed for MIT and another should be groomed for streetsweeping.

Sorry this turned into a rant, but my job is education-related and I have child, so I deal with this stuff every day.

Irene Wilde
 
I've read that an IQ test can determine how well you are qualified for certain types of jobs, but it can't be very many. I tend to score well on standardized tests, and it paid for my college, and I'm grateful. But I'm the first to tell you that it doesn't measure how successful you'll be at either college or real life. Determination plays a big factor, plus I don't think they have a test yet that effectively measures how well you interact with others, and that's a huge part of success at many endeavors.

Irene, I'm with you on the "special" classes, I opted out of them some years and took them others. On the whole, I think it was a worthwhile experience as I for the most part learned from the best teachers that way. Also, by being around other "smart" kids, I was in a situation where that was valued and encouraged, instead of denigrated for being a "nerd." But it depends quite a bit on the child's personality, and how the classes themselves are structured. The years I was in regular classes, I was often very, very bored.
 
IQ tests are actually pretty meaningless. You can train for them. So if you've never taken one before you might still be incredibly bright, but fare badly. While someone you could 'out-think' that's been practising can come out as a genius. The only thing they really test is your ability to do IQ tests.

I have taken similar tests that made sense for the job though. I had a little summer job at the post office and they have a test before the interview that's a variation on the IQ test where the odd-one-out and the sorting of objects is all related to the postal system. Pairing items up, rearranging lists and that sort of thing. So for that job it made sense.
 
Umm, do you also think it is something to do with the genens? is intellligence an innate ability? Does it have something to do with ethnicity? like once Hitler boasted Germany is of high quality?


THANK YOU FOR ALL THE RESPONSES. here is an article i found the other day. it would be better if i added link to it. but I could not find it again on the web after I saved on my computer. anyway, if you are interested in it, here is it:

You're Smarter Than You Think

As a child, says Yale psychologist Robert J. Sternberg, intelligence testsmade him nervous, and in college, he got a C in Introductory Psychology. But he went on to get a Ph.D. in psychology at Stanford and has since become one of the world's leading experts on intelligence.
Sternberg's early test anxiety may have left a few scars. He now rejects psychology's traditional take on intelligence in favor of a more radical concept--one with significant implications for the debate about racial disparities
Dr. Robert Epstein: For many years, you've been challenging some of our most basic notions of intelligence. What's wrong with our concepts of intelligence?
Dr. Robert Sternberg: The professional concept of intelligence is much worse than the lay one. The problem is that many professionals have bought into the notion that intelligence is one single thing--an IQ, a g-factor. Our research pretty strongly shows that to be false.
Epstein: Why do so many professionals cling to the concept of one intelligence?
Sternberg: Psychologists and educators keep finding a g-factor. Maybe that's because they keep using the same intelligence tests. Once you have a set of assumptions, you design studies to confirm what you already believe.
Epstein: So it's that old notion that intelligence is what intelligence tests measure--and nothing more?
Sternberg: Exactly. And it's a poor notion. We know that intelligence tests predict only about 10% of the variation in real life success. But what's the other 90%? Let's look at how people succeed in their lives and construct a test to measure those things.
For example, a lot of people have common sense but didn't get A's in school, while some people excel in academics but have little common sense. Common sense may be a form of practical intelligence that is not emphasized in schools, so we've designed tests of such intelligence for managers, salespeople, teachers, secretaries and other occupations. These tests predict success on the job as well as or better than do IQ tests.
Epstein: How about in schools, where the IQ test first started?
Sternberg: Maybe there are kids who have good common sense and could do well in school but are being taught in a way that is geared toward kids who are more memory and analysis oriented. So we designed a test for high school and elementary school students that measures IQ, memory and analytical abilities as well as creative and practical thinking skills.
Epstein: How might this new view of intelligence change things?
Sternberg: Once you get rid of the notion of the general intelligence factor [g-factor], you might find that the need for things such as affirmative action goes away, since kids who seemed like they didn't have much ability had abilities that we just weren't tapping into. Kids who are white and upper middle class and go to so-called "good schools" tend to perform best on analytical portions of IQ tests. But the students who do well on the creative and practical sections are much more diverse ethnically, socioeconomically and educationally
Epstein: Isn't there more prestige in traditional intellectual skills?
Sternberg: It depends. Einstein was distinguished for his creative ability, as were Mozart, Darwin and Picasso. There are a lot of people with traditional IQ-type skills who just disappear into the woodwork. Studies show that the people who really contribute to society usually have high levels of creative and practical skills.
Epstein: But aren't you talking about pigeonholing people?
Sternberg: Our view is the opposite. Our research has shown that all three kinds of abilities---academic, creative and practical--can be improved. Abilities are modifiable, flexible. When we give a test, the result isn't indelible; rather, it says where you are now. And that serves as a basis for where you can go.
For more on Sternberg's views on intelligence, pick up his book Successful Intelligence (Simon & Schuster, 1996).
Robert Epstein is University Research Professor at United States International University and host of radio's nationally syndicated PSYCHOLOGY TODAY.
 
Recipe: bobbyburns in Aspic
--Lovely for a family gathering!!


276 pkgs plain gelatin
turkey juice
bobbyburns
parsley sprigs
hard-boiled eggs

Heat some turkey juice and melt gelatin in the juice. Add a few ice cubes if you are in a hurry.

Carefully lay bobbyburns face down in a large, deep oval bowl. Cover the bobbyburns with the turkey gelatin and refrigerate until well set.

Have ready a pretty platter. Dip the large bowl into warm water and turn the bobbyburns out onto the platter. Garnish with parsley sprigs and hard-boiled eggs.

Note: A photograph of of this special dish is featured in the latest issue of "1002 Things to Do with a bobbyburns."

novella
 
bobbyburns said:
ten lbs. of green jello. I ate it all, irene. I love you so much ... I hurt myself for you.
Click to expand...

Now I know why they still bother selling green jello! :)

Don't get a tummyache!

I love you, too, Mr. Burns.

Irene Wilde

Did you put the little mini-marshmallows in it? :)
 
On a semantic note: we don't have jello in the UK, we have jelly. We also have jam, which US posters will know as jelly. All very confusing isn't it?

And I'll put my vote for IQ testing because I've been tested as having one in the genius range and that's good enough for me.

My favourite jelly/jello is the purple one. Every couple of months I make half a dozen bowls of the stuff and eat it all weekend. Green is also very nice.

My favourite jam/jelly is blackcurrant. And ginger marmalade.
 
They've been making Jello flavors over here called "Xtreme Jello." Another misspelling for the person who was collecting those. Anyway, I've discovered that the green apple mixes well with cinnamon liqueur for great Jello shots.
 
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