July 2008: Sándor Márai: Embers

[pontalba]

Robert, I agree, I think Henrik was mortally wounded that day, but the coup de grace was seeing his wife at Konrad's apartment, and her uttering the word "coward".
I don't think she called Konrad a coward because he didn't kill Henrik, I think she called him a coward because he ran and didn't face Henrik with her. He left her to face the thing alone.

Peder, I think it is more or less as you say he calmed over the years, not calmed, but accepted what he could not change. We can only rail at fate so long before we are exhausted.

Libra, Henrik went to Konrad's apartment just to do that very thing confront him, but Konrad the coward had already fled, so it was his automatic reaction, a confrontation and probably a duel. Which is of course why Konrad fled.

 

[Peder]

Libra, Henrik went to Konrad's apartment just to do that very thing confront him, but Konrad the coward had already fled, so it was his automatic reaction, a confrontation and probably a duel. Which is of course why Konrad fled.

Now that you mention, I wonder if that is the reason Henrik bought that pistol. Just in case he should ever get the chance again? It certainly keeps the suspense up -- something had to. :lol:

But I guess an officer would have had a pistol anyway. Drat.

 

[Robert]

I think it took him 41 years to slowly come to terms with the fact that his best friend and wife betrayed him.
It seemed to me he found a way to somehow give reason to the "why", in a way hoping that that is the way Konrad really would have excused it himself.
It was like at some points he was defending Konrad.

Konrad is interesting. He wasn't a killer; he didn't even like to hunt. It wasn't in his blood. When Krisztina called Konrad a coward, and did so in front of Henrik, I wondered if she was not only aware of Konrad's mission to kill Henrik, but perhaps she put him up to it. I also wonder if Konrad wasn't perhaps running from Krisztina.

I didn't like Krisztina and it looks like she didn't care for Henrik when they married. Was Henrik's title and money her ticket out?

 

[Robert]

But the book already short would have been a novela.Nice obsevation anyway.

I like the short part about the kill,that deep man instinc.Also the comparaison to sacrifice.It come ,if i remember well ,just before the hunt.Would that not be important in the story.Does henrick see himself a the sacrificial lamb.
The little piece on the lamb killing in the in Cairo was very interesting to me.Living in Marrakech,this very sacrifice is pratice every years in many familly-Aid el Khebir-and the kill is very much like the discription by Marai.Clean and professionnal,with very ancient roots.(Utterly ancient where is words?)

I didn't mean literally, saliotthomas. I mean he never moved on past that day. He lived in that day, isolated in his castle that was very much the same was the last day the three were together.

 

[Robert]

I understand the significance of Henrik burning the diary, but I don't understand the significance of Krisztina calling for Henrik and not Konrad from her deathbed? Any ideas?

 

[Libra]

I understand the significance of Henrik burning the diary, but I don't understand the significance of Krisztina calling for Henrik and not Konrad from her deathbed? Any ideas?

Yes, I have an idea.She wanted to apologise for being a (how can I say this politely?) miserable selfish woman who was dying and wanted to be forgiven before she met her maker.

 

[oskylad]

My guess would be she sought forgiveness from one who was able to give it. The General had provided for her, even though personally estranged from her. Konrad had left them both with nothing.

 

[Robert]

Asking forgiveness is a possiblility I guess. I just don't remember seeing anything that would indicate that she would be the type to ask.

 

[pontalba]

I understand the significance of Henrik burning the diary, but I don't understand the significance of Krisztina calling for Henrik and not Konrad from her deathbed? Any ideas?

I doubt she ever really forgave Konrad for deserting her like that, and maybe, just maybe she wanted to see Henrik before she died, not necessarily for forgiveness, but a sort of finality or acknowledgment of her wrong behavior.

 

[pontalba]

Yes, I have an idea.She wanted to apologise for being a (how can I say this politely?) miserable selfish woman who was dying and wanted to be forgiven before she met her maker.

Maybe she was selfish, well no two ways about it really, but otoh, she was a young woman in a situation not of her making, she was auctioned off by her family to Henrik, all was arranged and he drags her off to the forest to [as far as she was concerned] rot in isolation.
Along comes Konrad, a charming man, an old friend of her family that played on her unhappiness always there, always available to play music and empathize with her.
/spitting noises heard/ Pah.

 

[Peder]

she was a young woman in a situation not of her making, she was auctioned off by her family to Henrik, all was arranged and he drags her off to the forest to [as far as she was concerned] rot in isolation.
Along comes Konrad, a charming man, an old friend of her family that played on her unhappiness always there, always available to play music and empathize with her.

Sounds like you have been writing romance novels in your spare time. :lol: :flowers:

Actually, that also, like yours, can serve as a semi-serious comment applicable to the Marai's simple structuring of his own novel.

 

[pontalba]

Sounds like you have been writing romance novels in your spare time. :lol: :flowers:

Actually, that also, like yours, can serve as a semi-serious comment applicable to the Marai's simple structuring of his own novel.

I wish I had been, my bank account would be a lot healthier.
Nah, only observing how slickers like that operate.

 

[saliotthomas]

I understand the significance of Henrik burning the diary, but I don't understand the significance of Krisztina calling for Henrik and not Konrad from her deathbed? Any ideas?

A few things.She knew Konrad before meeting Henrick,so if she wanted him,she would have been with him then and i don't think she did.They where friend with commun interest.The all affaire has the strong smell of rebelion for both Konrad and Krisztina in front of this overwellming figure that his the general.With his easy maner,his way to go through life has if owning it,like teenagers again a figure of powers.I think Kisztina always love Henrick,and being a strong charactere herself,she just had to go against him,viceraly.
She calls him because she loves him still and want to let him know before she dies.
By the way,she dies is from starvation.Another methapore of isolation,there is a lot o parallele betwin the psychological and physical in this novel.

 

[Libra]

She calls him because she loves him still and want to let him know before she dies.
By the way,she dies is from starvation.Another methapore of isolation,there is a lot o parallele betwin the psychological and physical in this novel.

I don't know that she calls him out of "love". I mean, she lived for another 8 years, love would have made her ask for him earlier, not on her dying bed. Another example of paralell between psychological and physical is when the General was young and went with his mother to visit his grandmother and he practically made himself sick until Nini came.

 

[Robert]

By the way,she dies is from starvation.Another methapore of isolation,there is a lot o parallele betwin the psychological and physical in this novel.

Starvation is a methaphor of isolation? Very interesting.

 

[saliotthomas]

Starvation is a methaphor of isolation? Very interesting.

Well if you make the effort.She is secluded,cut off from the world,and this strange very rare desease stop her from taking any food in.
But it sure pull it a bit.And i do not mean in general.I that OK.

 

[saliotthomas]

I don't know that she calls him out of "love". I mean, she lived for another 8 years, love would have made her ask for him earlier, not on her dying bed.

Pride would make that to someone,only death and the finality of it would give her the strengh to call for him.
Pride is a terrible thing,and 8 years is but a blink of the eye for those really affected by it.Villages in Corsica are keeping grudges over small things for generation...
Again this is a view among others,and i might be mistaken.

 

[pontalba]

I don't know if she starved herself, I've gone back and all I can find is this on page 189..

....both before Krisztina was ill and then later, when she decided to become ill and die. I do believe such things can be decided -- and now I am quite certain of it.

It could have been starvation of course, or starvation was at least part of it, but it sounds more like she simply gave up and decided to 'let go'.
Whichever combination it was, it was her own will that decided her fate.
It was the only thing she felt she could control.

 

[saliotthomas]

I don't know if she starved herself, I've gone back and all I can find is this on page 189..

It could have been starvation of course, or starvation was at least part of it, but it sounds more like she simply gave up and decided to 'let go'.
Whichever combination it was, it was her own will that decided her fate.
It was the only thing she felt she could control.

Sorry Pontalba,i did not mean it as an act of will,it's an illness .I just fond the coencidence interesting.It is not important and a bit far fletch.

 

[Libra]

Pride would make that to someone,only death and the finality of it would give her the strengh to call for him.
Pride is a terrible thing,and 8 years is but a blink of the eye for those really affected by it.

With a major emphasis on the word pride ,you are right Thomas. My point of view toward this woman and Konrad for betraying the General did not let me think of it another way.

Pride is a terrible thing, from a personal situation, I am still waiting for an apology that will probably come too late.

Would it have made a difference if Nini had told him that she asked for him? I think yes.Why do you think Nini kept it from him? You just opened a whole can of worms in my head as to why Nini kept it from him. Maybe to punish Kriztina? Jealousy?