Paradise Lost: Book III (lines 325-345) Question

[andre3000]

When thou, attended gloriously from Heaven, 325
Shalt in the sky appear, and from thee send
The summoning Arch-Angels to proclaim
Thy dread tribunal; forthwith from all winds,
The living, and forthwith the cited dead
Of all past ages, to the general doom 330
Shall hasten; such a peal shall rouse their sleep.
Then, all thy saints assembled, thou shalt judge
Bad Men and Angels; they, arraigned, shall sink
Beneath thy sentence; Hell, her numbers full,
Thenceforth shall be for ever shut. Mean while 335
The world shall burn, and from her ashes spring
New Heaven and Earth, wherein the just shall dwell,
And, after all their tribulations long,
See golden days, fruitful of golden deeds,
With joy and peace triumphing, and fair truth. 340
Then thou thy regal scepter shalt lay by,
For regal scepter then no more shall need,
God shall be all in all. But, all ye Gods,
Adore him, who to compass all this dies;
Adore the Son, and honour him as me. 345

I have trouble understanding the bold part. Does it mean that because His Son will sacrifice himself to atone for all of the sins of mankind so that noe man will go to hell? Does it mean that the people who go to hell will never be relesed? Does it mean something completely different or are there many different interpretations this selection can have?

Thanks for any input.

 

[Ashlea]

I interpret it as the final judgment will include everyone that has ever lived (i.e. those who have already died are waiting for judgment). At that time, those who are going to hell will go and the gates are shut, and those who measure up will live in an idyllic place born of the ashes of the burnt earth.

The thing to keep in mind with Milton is that some of the stuff he gets from the Bible, and some of it he doesn't. So many of the things that "we" (we as in English speakers, and probably other parts of Western civ as well) think we know about Heaven and Hell does not have a Biblical basis, it's from Paradise Lost.

 

[Wabbit]

A lot of our ideas of what Heaven and Hell are like are from Paradise lost? Ah, that's really interesting! I didn't know that.

 

[Ashlea]

Read Revelations sometime, get a feel for what the Bible has to say, throw in Genesis for good measure, and then read Paradise Lost. It's a real eye-opener.

 

[Stewart]

Pandemonium was just another creation of Milton too and, as has been said, are most images and interpretations of Hell. He probably had loads of time, in those blind eyes, to conjure up images.

I interpret the line to mean that, after Judgement, Good shall rule the Earth. Sin would no longer exist; a world of perpetual piety.

 

[Themistocles]

Surely this bit, however, is in fact derived from the Bible?

"Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. ...He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." Revelation ch. 21, vv. 3-4

After the final judgement, God and the good people live in the New Jerusalem, where there is no more sin, whilst the sinners are cursed to "the fiery lake of burning sulphur." That's the essential idea.

One thing I found incredibly interesting was reading the earlier parts of Revelation (the Apocalypse itself) with a view to imagining what the scenes would look like and how they compare to any conceivable modern situation. Compare some of the lines to scenes of nuclear war as seen from the point of view of a man 2,000 years ago - there's a definite correlation. I'll post the extracts I found most pertinent some time.

 

[Sitaram]

One interesting assignment would be to learn exactly which denomination Milton was affiliated with, and see whether they subscribed to notions like the double predestination taught in certain schools of Calvinist thought.

The idea is that the exact number of the saved and the damned is foreknown and for-ordained from before the foundation of the world.

When I have a little more time, I want to do some searching and return to this post.

The most fascinating thing for me, in Milton, is where he has Satan say 'Evil, be thou my good.' A lot of interesting philosophical discussions arise from that one statement.

This thread opens up an interesting area for me which I never considered.

This link here is a good overview of some of what is involved, and claims that
Milton rejects Calvinist double predestination (whether of the Supra- or Sublapsarian varieties

http://www.brysons.net/miltonweb/milton01.html

and this link seems to give some real historical insight into Milton with regard to predestination

http://www.edwinmorgan.com/cri_st_07_young.html

Take a look at this passage from 2 Esdras in the Apocrypha, to see the notion of a number coming to completion, analogous to a pregnancy coming full term:

http://www.meta-religion.com/World_Religions/Christianity/Deuterocanonical/2_esdras1-5.htm


34: He answered me and said, "You do not hasten faster
than the Most High, for your haste is for yourself, but
the Highest hastens on behalf of many.

35: Did not the souls of the righteous in their chambers
ask about these matters, saying, `How long are we to
remain here? And when will come the harvest of our
reward?

36: And Jeremiel the archangel answered them and said,
`When the number of those like yourselves is completed;
for he has weighed the age in the balance,

37: and measured the times by measure, and numbered the
times by number; and he will not move or arouse them
until that measure is fulfilled.'"

38: Then I answered and said, "O sovereign Lord, but all
of us also are full of ungodliness.

39: And it is perhaps on account of us that the time of
threshing is delayed for the righteous -- on account of
the sins of those who dwell on earth."

40: He answered me and said, "Go and ask a woman who is
with child if, when her nine months have been completed,
her womb can keep the child within her any longer."

The concept that we are dealing with here is the notion that something has to happen before Hell can be sealed.

There are places in the Bible where it speaks of the fullness of time.

Such a notion is not uncommon in various religions. Certain Hasidic groups in Brooklyn, for example, believe that as soon as everyone of Jewish heritage becomes practicing and devout, then Moshiach (the messiah) will return to earth.

There is even a sci-fi story, The Nine Billion Names of God

http://thebookforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=129947#post129947

by Arthur C. Clark which expresses the belief that once all nine million names are discovered, the universe will come to an end.

 

[Sitaram]

Evil, Be Thou My Good

In the long (5 hour) PBS (Public Television) interview of Joseph Campbell by Bill Moyers, there is a brief segment in which Campbell relates a Sufi tradition about Satan. God casts Satan out of heaven with a stentorian voice saying "Begone!" and that last word of God is all Satan has to remember God by. The idea is that Satan really loves God, and the separation is punishment. Campbell chuckles and adds, "The last words he hears are 'Go to Hell', and that memory is all Satan has to cling to for eternity." I thought it was a very interesting story.

Sufi spirituality always seems to be greatly concerned with the notion of "a beloved" and yearning after the beloved. There is one Sufi story about a Fakir (religous ascetic), who is sitting by the roadside, begging, when he sees another Fakir passing by in a determined fashion and a quick pace. "Where are you going?" he calls out to the passerby, who replies "I am going to visit with God." The first Fakir shouts "Well, ask God what he thinks of my prayers." A few days later, our Fakir sees his fellow Fakir returning. "Did you speak with God?" he asks. The second Fakir replies, "Why yes, and he told me to tell you that he detests your prayers. They are the worst he has ever heard." The first Faker jumps up and down joyfully, laughing and shouting. "Why are you so happy?" the puzzled traveller inquires. "Because God heard my prayers!", answers the first. Once again, we see something beloved in the act of hearing and listening, even if what is heard is discouraging.


My favorite line in Milton is where Satan says "Evil, be thou my good." This devilish esthetic becomes interesting when examined in the light of Socrates' proposition that "all by nature desire the good, and no one willingly chooses what they consider to be not good", along with Plato's Euthypro problem, "is the good good by fiat simply because it is what God desires, or does God desire what is good for some inherent quality residing in goodness (or substitute virtue, morality, holiness, or righteousness for the word good,if you prefer).

I was a great fan of the cartoon series "Earthworm Jim". In one episode, through some bizarre radioactive accident, Earthworm Jim spawns an evil twin. They are about to battle to the death. The evil twin gives a speech first, boasting essentially the boast of Milton's Satan, that he hates everything that is good, and likes everything that is not good." So, Earthworm Jim (who is not always the brightest of worms) reasons, "Well, winning is good, and losing is bad, and since you like what is bad and hate what is good, then surely I shall defeat you.) Of course, we know that our hero, Jim, proceeds to dispatch his evil twin in no time flat.