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Scottish independence

tartan_skirt

tartan_skirt

New Member
(I'm not sure why I'm posting this now, as I'm leaving on holiday tomorrow... but what the heck, I'll just have to get back to you if anyone replies. I hope this is ok for the Mature section.)

As many people will know (or not), the Scottish election in 2007 resulted in the SNP winning the largest number of seats (one more than Labour and trouncing the Tories) and it is looking hopeful that Scotland will become independent! Now, I'm not exactly the most political-minded person and I wasn't even able to vote in this election, but I think Scotland should become independent.

In the years past I haven't really been a fan of the SNP, but with Labour and Conservative seeming more and more alike they are gaining appeal. At least with Scottish independence we wouldn't have to be run by English idiots because we have enough of those to form a government up here. But of course, I'm going to have to learn a little more about politics in Britiain before I can see the situation as a whole.

What is your opinion of Scottish independence? Will Americans stop calling the UK "England"? Will we be accepted into the EU? Will we keep the pound and keep ignoring the Euro (please)? And will we get our own Eurovision entry? :D
 
Sean Connery has a neat little write up in the Washington Post. Wow, wonder if Northern Ireland will ever be assimilated into the republic.

Personally, I blame such sentiments for independence on this movie.
 
I will admit that i am the least politicaly minded person....ever. I am 23 and have not ever even registered to vote. I do feel a little bad about it. I am one of those people that hide in hte background and pretend that the government doesnt exist and that my vote doesnt count for much. But i do complain about loads of things that i know can be hepled by taking an interest in politics and using my vote wisely.
I feel that from what iv read i couldnt bring myself to vote for any party!! I find all politicians repulsive.
If i had to choose i would maybe go for the green party. I am unsure about Scottish Independance. Can we sustain ourselves without England? It wouldnt be such a major loss really i supppose but economically......I think i would like to see Scotland try and be independant, but i wouldnt be sure it would work.
 
I'm at the end of 6-7 months living in Scotland. The thing is, if you look up any solid economic study, Scotland without the UK will go into poverty. They take much more than they give in terms of money to Britain (they sustain their socialism via money from England), they'd almost definitely hurt the value of the Euro by the end of a decade, and the offshore oil isn't enough to make them sustainably independent (so they'd pretty much give less than they take from the EU instead of the UK). AND they don't have enough other profitable industries in any other sector. It's just a bad idea unless the Scots want things to get worse.

Would be great for the English though. Even stronger economy.
 
tartan_skirt said:
What is your opinion of Scottish independence?
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What about England getting it's independence.

For the last 10 years we have had to put up with a Scottish Chancellor and a Scottish Prime Minster. We have had to suffer Brown and Blair.

Yes Blair is Scottish.

I'm sure Salmon will make a good President of Scotland since you won't have a Royal family.


President Salmon :D :eek: :(
 
Stewart said:
If it was then I'd pack my bags and leave.
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Because you expect more of Scottish independence, or because you love Eurovision? :rolleyes:

JustinDT said:
I'm at the end of 6-7 months living in Scotland. The thing is, if you look up any solid economic study, Scotland without the UK will go into poverty. ...

Would be great for the English though. Even stronger economy.
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Well, that is an issue..

chris302116 said:
What about England getting it's independence.
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I'm sorry, you'll never be free of Wales. ;)

I'm liking the newest news here. Scrapping graduate charges! Sure, SNP are trying to appeal to students in a grab for support, but at least its a reason for more people here to take an interest in the way the country is working. As a student starting university this year I'd be happy to see this being introduced in the next four years, for obvious reasons, but it probably needs more organising first so that the universities don't suffer. (On a side note, I am annoyed that SNP actually want the Euro...)

As I see it, Britain is in a political rut. At very least even if Scotland doesn't become independent then Labour will actually realise the wants of the population up here.
 
chris302116 said:
Wales would come as part of the deal Scotland can have them.
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I don't think we want them... They're probably worse than us in terms of economy.

I think students should pay for their education. Why should they get a free ride then go on to earn high salaries. sorry:eek:
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But not all do. Have you never heard of student debt either? In England and Wales the fee is about £3000 a year, which I think is insane because it deters people from poorer families from entering into university and thus continuing their life in a lower paying job. Back to that fee: £3000 a year for four years, £12,000. If that was covered by a loan during term time then they are expected to be paid back once the student is earning over £15,000 a year. How is that possible when it is close to their (hypothetical) salary? And what are these high salaries you speak of? A lot of starting salaries are under £20,000 unless you're refering to medicine and science based jobs and not everyone goes for those degree paths. Myself for instance, I'm going to be doing my degree on English Literature (maybe with History of Art) and in all honesty I haven't decided on a job yet, but most of the general jobs in the subject area start pretty low.

are?
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Well, obviously as a seventeen year old who sits at the computer and reads most of the time I can hardly talk for the whole population. But I think there is strong support for free education and a little more freedom from England when it comes to political decisions.
 
tartan_skirt said:
But not all do. Have you never heard of student debt either? In England and Wales the fee is about £3000 a year, which I think is insane because it deters people from poorer families from entering into university and thus continuing their life in a lower paying job. Back to that fee: £3000 a year for four years, £12,000. If that was covered by a loan during term time then they are expected to be paid back once the student is earning over £15,000 a year. How is that possible when it is close to their (hypothetical) salary? And what are these high salaries you speak of? A lot of starting salaries are under £20,000 unless you're refering to medicine and science based jobs and not everyone goes for those degree paths. Myself for instance, I'm going to be doing my degree on English Literature (maybe with History of Art) and in all honesty I haven't decided on a job yet, but most of the general jobs in the subject area start pretty low.
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Don't take this personally, I am only giving the other point of view ;) But........
You choose to do a degree in English Literature and you haven't decided on a job. WHY? Why should the tax payer pay for that. You want the tax payer to pay for you to do your degree and you don't even know if it will be of any use to you or society.

Also, if you earn over £15,000 then why not pay some of the loan back. There are people who will never earn £15,000 because they are on the minimum wage. I bet they would like to earn £15 plus thousand and pay back a small loan, instead of being on their wage.

tartan_skirt said:
But I think there is strong support for free education and a little more freedom from England when it comes to political decisions.
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The news announced yesterday is that you will NOT have to pay back the loan if you are in Scotland. Why because Scotland thinks education should be free............................Well it's not free, English tax payers are having to foot the bill. I think that the English may want the freedom from Scotland more than the Scottish want it. We would have more to gain and you have more to loose. :D

ps. My father is Scottish
 
chris302116 said:
Don't take this personally, I am only giving the other point of view ;) But........
You choose to do a degree in English Literature and you haven't decided on a job. WHY? Why should the tax payer pay for that. You want the tax payer to pay for you to do your degree and you don't even know if it will be of any use to you or society.
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I'm not going to start trying to explain all this here. :p

Also, if you earn over £15,000 then why not pay some of the loan back.
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It's not the loan, it is the graduate charge. In Scotland we apply to SAAS who pay for tuition fees for every Scottish student studying in Scotland, and on top of that we can recieve a bursary and a loan (partly for living costs) depending on parents income. Then once the student has graduated and is in full time work at over £15k a year they have to pay back £2000 in "graduates fees", or so I understand. Of course the loan needs to be paid back, it is the graduate fees that are being argued over.

And to the question at hand: Because £2000 (along with repaying loans) is a good chunk out of the wage that should be going towards something more important, such as rent, etc. Not everyone has parents that they can rely on for financial help and it is a lot of money.

I think that the English may want the freedom from Scotland more than the Scottish want it. We would have more to gain and you have more to loose. :D
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I have never really heard this opinion before, and I doubt thats how politicians are going to look at it. Or is it? (As I said, not exactly the most politically-minded person here. :rolleyes: )
 
There are people who will never earn £15,000 because they are on the minimum wage. I bet they would like to earn £15 plus thousand and pay back a small loan, instead of being on their wage.
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Had to say - well these people who want to earn that much can get off their butts and go do a 4 year degree. Then they can earn that extra money. Doing a degree isnt all the fun and games and slacking as many people think! I work damn hard and expect a good job out of it. To those who are in jobs that earn less, well, sorry but if you dont do the work then you dont get the rewards. And if they dont earn over £15 grand because they cant afford to do a degree then, woohoo for them....come to Scotland and they can do it for free.
 
Catalyst said:
Had to say - well these people who want to earn that much can get off their butts and go do a 4 year degree. Then they can earn that extra money.
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I don't think you have thought this through.

In this world, the only way rich people will stay rich is by having poor people to do the less skilled jobs.

If every one gets a degree then the degree won't be worth much. A bit like the A levels. They have become so easy to get that they don't mean that much to employers anymore and next year an A+, or something similar, is being introduced.

Someone who works in Tesco for a poor wage, I would guess is working their butt off far more than a student doing a bit of study for four years on tax payers money, in scotland anyway. :D
 
chris302116 said:
Someone who works in Tesco for a poor wage, I would guess is working their butt off far more than a student doing a bit of study for four years on tax payers money, in scotland anyway. :D
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And that is all they will be doing. After i work my butt off in my degree il work even harder in a job, using my degree. Im in no doubt that people in Tesco etc work hard, but if i have the brains to get a degree i am not going to feel sorry for those that dont have the drive or brain power to get a better job. I will have £20,000 to pay off once im done in my degree! I dont think the tax payer will pay that!
 
Catalyst said:
After i work my butt off in my degree il work even harder in a job, using my degree. Im in no doubt that people in Tesco etc work hard, but if i have the brains to get a degree i am not going to feel sorry for those that dont have the drive or brain power to get a better job. I will have £20,000 to pay off once im done in my degree! I dont think the tax payer will pay that!
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IF you get a job.

You, could end up in Tesco if you fail your degree or if to many people with the same degree as you are chasing to few jobs.

If you do get the job you want, £20,000 won't be to hard to pay off with all the money you will earn.
 
Lol i am not going to fail! Only got one semester left. The jobs im looking at dont pay great. At the start anyway. Id probably be more well off working in tesco and not having the £20,000 to pay off. But then i wouldnt have a soul left if i did that....
 
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