Self Publishing v/s Traditional Publishing

[laboi_22]

I have been thinking since finishing up with my novel that I would possibly self publish. Please weight the pro's and con's for me. I am still intrested in traditional publishing, but self publishing at www.lulu.com seems easy and free. Any advice recommended. Thanks in advance.

Justin

 

[clueless]

I would try something like this http://www.panmacmillan.com/aboutPan/macmillannewwriting.html

rather than self-publishing. I never used self-publishing but I have a relative that did. He sold very, very few copies. I am not sure what he did with the rest of the print run, but he must have burned them. I never saw a copy.

 

[lies]

You might want to read what members had to say in some of the other self-publishing related threads, like this one.

 

[Motokid]

There have been a number of posts on this.

I would suggest doing a search on "self-publishing" in TBF then ask specific questions if you don't find what you're looking for.

In a nut shell....as a last resort not the worst thing you can do, but not the best place to start. Try all the "more conventional" avenues first. Try them many times over...then think about self-publishing. But not right away.

 

[Cathy C]

Here you go, laboi_22. This is an article I wrote on my website. I cut it into two parts. It should explain a few things about the differences:

ARTICLE 16

WHAT ARE TP, SP, SMALL, POD PRESSES, VANITY AND SUBSIDY PUBLISHERS? Part 1

Many aspiring authors are confused by the variety of publishers available in the industry. Since the goal of any author is to be published, does it matter what publisher is used? In a word -- maybe...

When a reader thinks of a publisher, they usually think of a large firm in New York, London, Frankfurt or the like that prints thousands or millions of books. The books, either paperback, trade, or hardback show up in every bookstore, discount store and grocery in the country and overseas. The large press companies are often called Normal Publishers, Traditional Publishers or TP for short. A TP is a company which employs full-time editors, cover artists, in-house attorneys and all of the support staff necessary to publish books. Usually, an author submits a manuscript and, if the manuscript appears commercially viable (see below articles for "What an Editor Looks For"), then the publisher pays the author an advance (up-front money which is the amount anticipated the book will earn), and begins the publication process of editing, copyediting, etc. The important thing to remember in TP is that the publisher takes on the financial risk of publishing the book. The author does not PAY ONE SINGLE DIME of the cost to publish the book! The publishing process is expensive, but a TP takes on the financial risk because their careful selection process generally means that at least 50% of the time, they will break even in their out-of-pocket expense. They pay from 4%-10% to the author in royalties, which allows them to pay their expenses and still hopefully make a profit. An average print run for a beginning author at a Traditional Press is 20,000-60,000 copies. Most any magazine, newspaper or website will review a traditionally published book.

The next type of publisher is a Small Publisher or Small Press. There are thousands of small presses all over the world. This type of publisher generally chooses books with "local appeal" or "genre appeal" that probably will not be interesting to nationwide audiences. Examples of this are regional historical books. While the details of the Battle of San Jacinto in U.S. Texas history might be interesting to Texans or students of history, they probably won't garner as much national attention as, say, the battle of the Alamo. A Small Publisher also has careful standards in choosing manuscripts -- probably more so than Traditional Publishers. Their dollars are tight, and have to be spent on offerings that have the greatest chance to break even in out-of-pocket expenses, since they also take on the financial risk of publishing the book. Again, the author does not PAY ONE SINGLE DIME of the cost to publish. A Small Press often does not offer an initial advance, but pays a little higher than average advance in exchange, usually 10%-12%, because they don't have the larger overhead of the Traditional Presses. A Small Publisher book is usually offered in most bookstores in the regional area of the subject matter, and is available through small distributors so that it can be ordered from anywhere. An average print run for a beginning author at a Small Press is 3,000-10,000 copies. Most magazines, newspapers and websites have a special "Small Press Reviewer" who seeks out exceptional books that are Small Press published to highlight each month.

For a book that has limited appeal (even smaller an area or group than regional), or is of a type that might not "fit" in a traditional genre (for example, a horror/erotica novel or a non-fiction book about the care and feeding of Brazilian llamas), then an author has the option to Self Publish. This is also known as SP. Self-published authors take the place of the publisher, because it is the AUTHOR who takes on the entire financial risk of publishing. The author pays for editing the book from a freelance editor; the author pays for the book to be formatted (if the author doesn't have the skill or knowledge); the author pays for the cover artist to design the front cover, the back cover and the spine art. The author pays to have the book printed, distributed and marketed. However, the author also receives the ENTIRE benefit of the purchase price from the public. Depending on how much of the design and marketing the author did him/herself, a sales price will pay the expenses and still net the author a profit that will be similar to what they would have recouped from a traditional or small publisher. Newspapers local to the author's home will usually review a self-published book, and the occasional magazine might look at SP novels once or twice a year. Some websites and independent reviewers are happy to review a self-published book.

End of Part 1 -- Look below
**********

 

[Cathy C]

ARTICLE 16

WHAT ARE TP, SP, SMALL, POD PRESSES, VANITY AND SUBSIDY PUBLISHERS? Part 2

But to get the book into the public's hands, an SP author is dependant on the services of a printer to put the book in final form. There are two types of presses available to a self published author. One is using the services of a small offset press -- the same ones that a small publisher uses. Normally, they require a minimum press run of 2,500 to 5,000 books. However, many SP authors can't afford this sort of up-front cost and have nowhere to warehouse the completed volumes.

So, a SP author's second option is a Print On Demand, or POD press. By using digital presses, a POD printer can store the completed manuscript, dimensions, cover art, plus any photos or graphs in a electronic folder and, "on demand" print out 100, 10 or even a single volume of the book. This makes it quite easy for an author to sell their books, because nothing has to be printed until the book is already sold -- making the prospect of recouping the expense guaranteed.

But the POD technology has also led to a whole new type of publisher -- the Vanity Publisher and Subsidy Publisher. What is the difference between them? Well, in reality -- there isn't one. Mind you, there used to be a difference. Before POD technology, a subsidy publisher was one which wasn't quite a small press. They would find obscure novels and give them a chance, but because their finances were tight, they would ask for a small helping hand from the author to pay the printer for the first edition. That is to say, for a full press run of 2,500 copies, they would pay half and the author would pay half, and the subsidy press would then warehouse and sell the book as a traditional publisher does. The author would receive back their money for the print run as books were sold until paid back and then would drop into the more traditional royalty-based pay. Reviewers for newspapers and magazines looked kindly on subsidy presses, for the most part, because they were Small Press wanna-be's that would eventually turn into a solid company.

But all that changed with POD entered the picture. Suddenly, anyone could claim to be a publisher and take on manuscripts to earn money from -- all with no dollars out of pocket!

Now, to be fair, some subsidy publishers state up front that they are a printer. They make no bones about the fact that the AUTHOR bears the full financial responsibility for the production of the book. You will probably never recoup your investment, get a review, or make your fortune. And, the out of pocket investment can be quite large -- thousands of dollars more than a small press would pay to publish a book, because you're only doing it one at a time. But these fee-based subsidy presses DO actually have a niche in the world. They are perfect for family histories, where only a dozen or a hundred people will be interested in the book. They are great for organization cookbook fundraisers and the like. They are being paid to perform a service for people who don't have a publisher in the family. This is terrific, because books that might never have seen the light of day can make it to print. This is the good sort of Vanity Press -- the desire to see a product in print that a large publisher would probably never look at. Perhaps it's vain to want to hold a book in your hands, but sometimes it's enough to make the writer happy. An author is unlikely to ever get a book published by a vanity/subsidy publisher reviewed. The magazines, newspapers and websites don't consider them "published." The publishing industry as a whole actually considers a vanity/subsidy publisher to be LESS than a self-published book. It's not considered a writing credit for any future contract negotiations with a large publisher. Vanity publishers are nothing more than "printers" to the rest of the book industry. The good vanity publishers know this. If they use the term "publisher" at all, it is meant to mean that they assist in formatting the book before it is printed.

Unfortunately, some vanity publishers have taken advantage of the good name that subsidy publishers once had and have ruined it. They have led aspiring authors to believe that they are good and kind small presses which only want to help by-pass the rigmarole that traditional presses "put an author through." But therein resides the lie of dishonest vanity presses -- traditional publishers and small publishers are CONSTANTLY seeking new writers. But they do expect a writer to have mastered his/her craft. Dishonest vanity publishers have no such expectation. They will print EXACTLY what is given to them. If editing is done at all, it is to correct things like punctuation or word choice. Part of the lie is that they are just like traditional publishers, who will edit these things, but they fail to mention that traditional publishers ALSO edit the plot, the characters, timeline and motivation. These are required to make the best book possible. A vanity publisher isn't concerned about the best book, because the author is paying the bill. And if the author is not paying the bill -- a terrific ploy by some vanity publishers -- then the BUYER is footing the bill. While the cost to publish is not out of the author's pocket, it is ALSO not out of the publisher's pocket. They are not willing to take on the financial risk of publishing. A similar trade paperback that will retail for $14.95 from a traditional or small publisher will cost $19.95 to $24.95 from a vanity publisher -- so the end reader is paying the actual expense of printing (plus profit to the publisher, which is how they can maintain their business). Most author contracts state that royalties are based on NET sales, rather than on retail price, so the extra cost of the book does not benefit the author at all.

REMEMBER THE GOLDEN RULE: Gold flows TO the author, not away from the author. If you want to write the one book that's in your head, and never expect to write another; never expect to have a career of writing; and never hope to make enough money to REPLACE your day-job salary, then a subsidy publisher is probably fine. But if you are an aspiring author who hopes to build a career of five, ten or a hundred books, then you should learn your craft, take your time, and stay with the traditional publisher or small press.

**********
Hope this helps some. The other articles referenced in here are on my website (I didn't feel like editing to find all the references). The link is below. Good luck!

Cathy

 

[Eugen]

Well written, well researched, Cathy.

Laboi_22, while vetting viable publishers, it might be worth your while visiting this page which lists a number of publishers, guidelines and ratings:

http://www.anotherealm.com/prededitors/

 

[ArJohn]

Self Pub --- A little more info

I was lucky - my first book was picked up by an ebook publisher that was planning to go to paper. As she assembled the backing and staff needed she went through all the possible scenarios. In the end she went Traditional Publisher. Now, I am the author here and really don't know all the finite details, but she seemed insistent to get off on a good start she was going to show all that her imprint was 100% legit.
It seems PODS and Self Published books are often not picked up by libraries. So? You may ask. Well, once a book has gotten some press (which BTW most reviewers and critics will not deal with anything other than TP fare) libraries begin getting requests from readers. Being in a library lends tremendous credence to both the writer and the publisher.
There were pages and pages of things that TPs receive by "doing it the old fashioned way," as compared to Self-pub or PODs.
Either way you decide to go -- I wish you luck and skill.

 

[sirmyk]

It matters what you want out of your work, whether or not you go traditional or self-published. Either way, it's a lot of work.

 

[rayw1711]

Do publishers ever come here?

I would like to find a publisher who would be interested in publishing a book that has sold over 1000 copies in six months on the net in the UK, it has had the benefit of television time but as a self-published Author, I am only able to sell my books on the net. This is a very slow way to sell when you are not known and it has been difficult getting people to find my Blog site. By Google my name, Raymond J Warren my site is found easily but the full title of the book makes it a little harder {Wildflower The Barbara Crawford Thompson Story]. My book has been lucky but it needs to be in book stores as it is a wonderful true history of a shipwrecked 13-year-old Scottish girl among headhunting cannibals. I will self-publish it again but would prefer a proper publisher to take a look at its possibilities.
rayw1711

 

[beer good]

I would like to play guitar in a big-time rock band. I've played at several parties and people seem to think I'm pretty good at "Bad Moon Rising" and "Knocking On Heaven's Door." But it's a slow way to become a superstar, so if any major label record company executives happen to surf by here, contact me.

 

[Libra]

^^I do love when your sense of humor comes out.:blink:

 

[rayw1711]

I would like to play guitar in a big-time rock band. I've played at several parties and people seem to think I'm pretty good at "Bad Moon Rising" and "Knocking On Heaven's Door." But it's a slow way to become a superstar, so if any major label record company executives happen to surf by here, contact me.

So, why are you not running around in a musicians site, won't they have you? Tell you what, when you grow up, I am sure that somebody will give you a chance at "Idol" if you ask pretty please.

 

[beer good]

Since you don't get irony (which I thought you would, given your hilarious Hitler comparison earlier) here it is in plain speak:

Publishers don't trawl message boards looking for people who claim to have written a book and then contact them. They are too swamped in manuscripts sent in by people who actually bother contacting the publishers. Getting published takes work. Posting a message to a message board frequented by a few dozen people and then sitting back and waiting for the offers is the equivalent of buying a pair of football shoes and then waiting for Manchester United to offer you a contract.

 

[rayw1711]

Since you don't get irony (which I thought you would, given your hilarious Hitler comparison earlier) here it is in plain speak:

Publishers don't trawl message boards looking for people who claim to have written a book and then contact them. They are too swamped in manuscripts sent in by people who actually bother contacting the publishers. Getting published takes work. Posting a message to a message board frequented by a few dozen people and then sitting back and waiting for the offers is the equivalent of buying a pair of football shoes and then waiting for Manchester United to offer you a contract.

So you think hilarity is the word, it is obvious that you have about as much interest in the problems of others as you have in answering me with politeness. I am not seeking a publisher my friend, my book is already published, I was sekking advise from someone whao might know of a contactable publisher but in that context, I can see why publishers would not trawl, as you put it, for anything here. If this forum is only frequented by a few dozen people, it is again obviously not the place to seek any thing. If you feel that my problems with a large bookseller who has never had a copy of my book yet is advertising all over the world on all of it's sites and the small bookseller sites it now owns, are hilarious then may anything you write [if you do write anything] suffer a worse persecution. I will lay a bet of London to a brick that you never examined what I was trying to say.

 

[Stewart]

You obviously haven't a clue what you're talking about. I had a look at your book on Amazon and in the US there's one copy going for $71.68 and the UK as a more reasonable £16.75. The German Amazon has it at €50.50, the French at €49.90. What you are missing is that Amazon is not the one setting these prices, it's the individual book stores that are making use of Amazon's Marketplace feature. They set the price.

 

[rayw1711]

You obviously haven't a clue what you're talking about. I had a look at your book on Amazon and in the US there's one copy going for $71.68 and the UK as a more reasonable £16.75. The German Amazon has it at €50.50, the French at €49.90. What you are missing is that Amazon is not the one setting these prices, it's the individual book stores that are making use of Amazon's Marketplace feature. They set the price.

Oh really, well that's it then, the fact that the individual selling the book in the UK is my agent who is making a couple of p a book. And what individual bookstores, no-one has my book except me, I am self published only, not one book is sold anywhere in the world except by me, so how can an individual bookstore set a price if it does not have the book and why should it?? Amazon De were the first to do the business in Germany and since that time other Amazon centers have joined in, the book stores entered only in the last couple of months. So explain to me with your Sherlock Holmes "I know and only I know what I am talking about".
My book sells at less than half the price Amazon are offering and there is reason behind what they are doing, customers see such a price and give up on requesting the book until they find my blog, I have several emails from customers complaining that they were only able to get the book through the luck of finding my blog. What individual stores, Abe books belongs to Amazon so too does the Book community and Colbris in the USA is also Amazon owned , look up the meaning of that word. So too, do several other book sellers belong to Amazon that are advertising my book and what makes Japan Amazon advertise my book along with a small Japanese bookstore nobody ever heard of? Thank you for your king disbelieving words, I feel like the boy who cried wolf except that I have been telling it like it is.

I do not even know how Amazon got my material except to take it from my blog site because I have supplied it to nobody and finally, seeing I have no clue what I am talking about, why are Amazon and their book sellers advertising my book at such inflated prices when they have none to sell? Amazon at this moment are in a court battle with a fairly large English Publisher, the Publisher charges that Amazon are trying to force them off the Internet because they are advertising their clients books for sale. Does it not occur to you that someone might be trying to get a story across that has foundation or are you just a "Doubting Thomas" of the sarcastic kind?
Go back Sherlock and examine again, examine it knowing that in this world there are only 2100 copies of this book and I still have 700 of them. Since it appeared on television in June last year in the UK, it has been much requested by Amazon customers, instead of asking me for copies of the book they elected to advertise it in this manner. They have no stock and have never had stock and every copy I have sold has been signed to the purchaser? But I guess that I just don't know what I am talking about I guess that these big companies are all wonderful. If you think for one moment that this is unreal, think again, I would rather not have a book if this is what the literary world is like, I am plain and simply a historian and do not lay claims to being an Author but I do know fraudulence when I see it. For once take your finger out of the smart aleck file and try believing what ypou are hearing and if you do not, try examining things with a bit more "Sherlock"

 

[Stewart]

Since you've registered an ISBN for the book, they'll say the book is available, set their price, and source it...if the need ever arises.

 

[rayw1711]

To Stewart, well has Stewart disappeared into his books and made his final statement, that "Amazon take a non-existent ISBN ten numbers and then begin advertising it for no reason at all? You see, the only ISBN I have been given is a thirteen number ISBN because I did not register the book [late in 2008] until I realized that Libraries would need that data. So why would Amazon De [Germany] take an unknown book, afix a ten number ISBN to it [until my 13 number became known in January/February this year] and begin advertising in every one of their stores world wide?

Wow, how many young [I am old] and aspiring Authors have that going on for them up here? Are Amazon a charity mob, advertising for a book that once they get a buyer they do not connect nor pass on the buyer to the seller in any way shape or form.

Stewart, I think your original statement of "You don't know what you are talking about is beginning to point harshly back in your face. I do not mean to be rude when I say that you have certainly not studied the problem nor have you tried to understand it by asking me questions, you have simply done an Amazon protecting attack.

I would [if I were you] examine all the Amazon lists and see how many books are suffering my fate, simply look for those they quote as stock not available and check the price they are offering, I will bet that books being sold on the net from other sites will be very low [to keep the customer waiting for that price] or very high [to dissuade the customer from buying at all], like I said, my book is only available through my agent in England who is making it possible for me to sell my book through the very people who are obviously trying to drive me off. There appears to be only one point to their exercise and that is to stop Authors and small publishers from sell their produce on the Internet and that is tantamount to dictating what people can read. Remember this, "many a warning has been broadcast and many a fool has ignored".
Stewart, you must have a book written, go offer it to Amazon and ask them to market it min England and see what the reply will be, "You must have a warehouse facility for several thousand of your books, you must have an English Credit card, you must have British selling rights and etc. So why pray tell, are Amazon advertising an unknown with such enthusiasm?
rayw1711

 

[beer good]

Amazon take a non-existent ISBN ten numbers and then begin advertising it for no reason at all? You see, the only ISBN I have been given is a thirteen number ISBN

It's the same ISBN. Yes, if you got the number after 1 Jan 2007 it's got 13 numbers, but it can be converted to 10 numbers (as most bookstores do, since a lot of their stock was published before then) and still count as the same ID.

International Standard Book Number - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ISBN-13 Online Converter