• Welcome to BookAndReader!

    We LOVE books and hope you'll join us in sharing your favorites and experiences along with your love of reading with our community. Registering for our site is free and easy, just CLICK HERE!

    Already a member and forgot your password? Click here.

Somebody else’s child & discipline

Motokid

Motokid

New Member
5-Year-Old Arrested For Candy Outburst At School
POSTED: 12:52 pm EST March 18, 2005
ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. -- Florida school officials are apologizing for the arrest of a 5-year-old, whose tantrum landed her in the back of a police cruiser.
Officials said the girl threw books and boxes, kicked a teacher in the shins, smashed a candy dish, hit an assistant principal in the stomach and drew on the walls. She was upset when a teacher took away jelly beans she was counting in a math exercise at Fairmount Park Elementary School.
Minutes later, she was under arrest for battery. The 40-pound girl's hands were bound with plastic ties and her ankles in handcuffs.
A school superintendent said campus police should have been called. He said school officials "never want to have 5-year-old children arrested."
No charges were filed and the girl went home with her mother, who said her daughter will not return. In her words, "They set my baby up."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

This story was in the news a few weeks back. I have to wonder where is the line drawn in restraining somebody elses child? Was this so far and above common sense from the standpoint of the school? Should a school have to deal with children like this no matter what, or was the school right to call in some outside help?

Judging from the mothers responce I think I might have to fall on the side of the school. I believe the mother has contacted a lawyer and a suit against the school is being looked into.

When your job is to teach, protect, and look after a room full of children, and/or a school full of children, is there justification for what happened in this case? Is there ever justification for arresting a 5 year old and handcuffing them for a temper tantrum when thier parents are no where to be found?
 
It's an incredibly impossible situation the school was placed in. On the one hand surely no child that young should ever be restrained in such a way, however I am shocked that such a young child would react in such a violent way.

If the school attempted to contact the mother & were left with no alternative, then they do have to prioritise the safety of the other pupils & their own staff.
I think out of this story, I do find the scariest part of all the mother's reaction to everything & would be very interested to see if there is in fact an impending court case or if lawyers do still have something in the way of sense sometimes.
 
Yea, I saw this a while back and I could only think one thing. I wonder if this kid's mother punished her AT ALL for throwing a huge tantrum and hitting two adults at school. I believe the mother made some comments about this being about the child's race rather than her violent and abusive behavior. I'm a little confused as to how a child was "set up" by having jelly beans taken away. Give me a break. I know (having seen it a zillion times) that this is not the first (or last) time a child will be placed in a police cruiser in cuffs in an effort to teach the kid a lesson.
 
I have seen a 5 year old throwing a tantrum like that. The teacher and the classroom assistant held the child by his arms and legs and took him out of the class and took him into another room. They had to take another child out a couple of minutes later, as she had started imitating the boy. The teacher returned to the class immediately, so I assume the classroom assistant stayed with the children and managed to calm them down.

I really think that if a teacher and a head teacher cannot control a 5 year old, perhaps they should think about changing jobs.

I am not defending the mother, though, just saying that outside help should not be necessary in this case if the school was run properly. The mother is to blame for the child’s behaviour, because the girl would not act like that if she was not used to get her own way at home.
 
I have never seen a child freak to this extent before, and I hope I never do.

So suppose you are having a birthday party for a bunch of children at your house, and a child that is not yours starts to behave like this. You can't reach the childs parents by phone, or by any other means, and the tantrum is turning violent. Things are getting broken in your house, and the possibility that some child might get hurt is rising.

What do you do? How do you handle somebody elses child in this situation without fear of being verbally, physically, legally attacked by the child parent once things have settled for a few days?
 
I would restrain the child myself before things got to that point. But I have never had that problem. When my children's friends come home or my children go to someone else's place, there is always an understanding between parents that we will try other children as our own. I would not allow violence in other people's children because I never allow my own to behave that way.

And it is not hard to stop that type of behaviour in a young children once they realise they are not going to win.
 
Motokid said:
What do you do? How do you handle somebody elses child in this situation without fear of being verbally, physically, legally attacked by the child parent once things have settled for a few days?
Click to expand...

I think you've really hit the nail on the head right there. I feel that society has turned so much to the "blame culture" nowadays that a large amount of people are now thinking twice about what common sense tells them to do, for fear of being sued. An example of this is teachers are no longer able to apply sun lotion to children too young to do this themselves, as the physical contact could be misconstrued.
 
Motokid said:
What do you do? How do you handle somebody elses child in this situation without fear of being verbally, physically, legally attacked by the child parent once things have settled for a few days?
Click to expand...

I'd call the cops and have the kid PCed (placed in Protective Custody) in a second. I'd never physically restrain another person's child, but I would gladly let the police handle the child. What usually happens in a situation like this (in my experience) is that the kid gets taken into Protective Custody, taken to the hospital and admitted for a Mental Health Exam. Then I'd leave a message for the parent to contact the police to get their kid back and send them a bill for the damages to my home.

I wasn't raised that way and I don't have a lot of symapthy for parents who raise their kids to act like that or don't disclose potential problems (ie conduct disorder, etc). Plus, who leaves their kids at a friend's house and then isn't available?
 
"Plus, who leaves their kids at a friend's house and then isn't available?"

Unfortunately, my guess would be that there are millions of parents who do that.

There is no intelligence test that has to be passed to become a parent.
 
Clueless, I think you've way over simplified things, but that's probably my fault. You would know everybody at a birthday party.

Take your child to the public park. There are literally 100's of kids you've never seen before running around like wild animals doing their everyday kid thing. All of a sudden some 5 year old stranger starts beating up another 5 year old in the sandbox. No parent of either child seems to be stepping in to alter the conflict. What do you do? How do you "restain" a child that's not yours if the child is getting violent and out of control?

How do you physically restrain somebody elses child?
 
Sar said:
I think you've really hit the nail on the head right there. I feel that society has turned so much to the "blame culture" nowadays that a large amount of people are now thinking twice about what common sense tells them to do, for fear of being sued. An example of this is teachers are no longer able to apply sun lotion to children too young to do this themselves, as the physical contact could be misconstrued.
Click to expand...

Yes its getting silly. I feel sorry for the teachers that has to be this careful with the kids they are supposed to be teaching.

The courts should not allow silly cases like these to reach as far as they do.
 
Sometimes we put teachers and police officials in tough spots. When and how can I discipline? When and how can I defend myself? What are the exact words that I need to use so as not to be sued?

I just read Freakonomics, and according to Levitt, studies show that how you're disciplined does not affect your test scores as a child. There are factors other than test scores to be concerned about that couldn't be easily quantified or tested, but what this means to me, is that you're not going to ruin a kid if you have to do something drastic to punish a kid. If you can't spank without being sued, arrest the ankle-biter. I personally like the whole time-out thing, but I can definitely see where it may not be as effective for some children. Then again, some kids are just sociopaths, and it doesn't matter what you do. I grew up with a few of those.
 
Moto, I guess in that case you are right.

And yes, things are extremely silly as Star has pointed out. In my daughters' previous school, they declared the climbing frame off-limits because a child fell from it and her parents complained. Teachers are getting more and more scared of taking children on school trips because, even if everything goes well, they need to spend a lot of time and fill mountains of paper to carry out a risk assessment before the trip. You cannot even put a plaster on a child without a first aid certificate. Nursery teachers cannot give a hug to a child crying his eyes out because it is the first time is away from his mum.

I am not sure this is about children's welfare. In some cases, I think it has more to do with greed and getting easy money as in the 'Have you had an accident in the last two years' law suits.
 
When two kids are fighting, you could just do what my parents always did. Just punish your kid and tell him it was his fault regardless of whether he was even involved. "You were in the general area playing by yourself. You're getting it too." That always pissed me off to no end.

Hey, even if you can't punish the other child, it's an important life lesson for your kid: life isn't fair.
 
I think a call to the school or district psychologist would have been more productive than a call to the cops in this case. Again, this is a situation where are the facts are not being shown -- does the child suffer from emotional problems, learning problems, family problems (besides a lack of discipline)? What's been her relationship with the teacher and classmates? Did the school have a discipline plan in place so that children were all disciplined fairly and equally? Did the school not have a protocol for dealing with children having tantrums in kindergarten (a not-at-all extraordinary occurrence)? If so, did they follow it? Is their plan "call the cops at once" or had other methods been tried first?

As usual, I suspect there is more to this story and people should reserve judgement.

At my house, kids are watched and adults intervene before tantrums are allowed to start. If a child seems to be having a bad day, the parents are called or the child is taken home. If that isn't an option, I could always call upon the big hyponotic box in the living room that can be used to keep things quiet until the parents can be contacted. The biggest problem I have with other people's kids is the parents not picking them up on time. Two hours of after school play is not intended to include dinner and a movie that evening!
 
There’s a major difference between the children you invite into your home, and the children the law says have to be in school. There’s a major difference in 5 or 6 kids, and 25 or 26 kids. There’s a major difference in a home, and a public school. (I am sure you know that)

There are so many kids that are discipline problems. And the law says they have to go to school. So what’s a teacher to do when the law says the child has to be there, and you have to teach them?

It’s the idea of physically having to restrain a child that’s not yours that makes the situation really difficult.

I would say that the school probably did what they thought was best at the time, and that the lawyers should be looking more at the Mother and Father of the little girl, and not the school.

But that is given that the only information I have is what I was allowed to have by the media.
 
Schools and school districts are some of the biggest bureaucracies around. There are reams and reams of paper governing every aspect of curriculum, instruction, discipline, facilities, budget -- everything you can imagine, and some things you can't. At my daughter's school this year, we found out what happens with a family of bears wanders too near the school (these things happen when you live in a secret rebel base in the mountains). Yes, there's a procedure and yes, it was followed. No harm came to bears, students, or staff. School administrators are more aware than anyone that some parents do a better job than others, but that they have to work with all children. Some schools feed, cloth, perform medical and dental screenings, and provide 12-hours of day care five days a week during the school year and over the summer. In a three-ring binder somewhere, or on a computer file somewhere, there is a policy, in writing, about the state laws regarding physically restraining students, the district policy, and the school guidelines. Either these were followed or they weren't. For a 5 year old to be in wrist and ankle restraints in the back of a police car...I have to think something happened along the way that was more than taking jelly beans away -- that may have been a starting point, but it's a mighty long down rock n' roll from jelly beans to "Cops -- The Early Years."
 
My son had something some what close happen last year when he was in kindergarden. There was a boy in his class that seemed to have no self control, he bullied, cussed, refused to do the projects, he was constantly disrupting the class and when the teacher would talk with him he often went into tantrums. The teacher then would place him at a desk in the hall right by the office for a "time out", while she went back in to calm and get the class back on task.

The teacher scheduled conferences with the parent and tried to get the mom involved, the mother was outraged. She called or stopped all the parents in the class to tell them about all the bad things the teacher was doing to he innocent son. Some of the parents started calling and harassing the teacher, the father even threatened and cussed at her. It was as close to a mob mentality as I have ever been. The parents were divided there were those of us that helped out in the class and supported the teacher 100% and those that wanted her fired or burnt at the stake.

The teacher had been at that school for 15 years and was a wonderful teacher. This all happened towards the end of the year and when fall came we found out that she had retired unexpectedly. The boy who had started all the trouble was gone too. It is sad because the school lost a good teacher and the boy never got the help he needs. I did get in touch with the teacher again this year she is at another school and we keep in touch. She was not willing to talk about the incident at all but she misses the school alot it seems and all the kids there that she had taught.

So these stories always upset me because I feel that our society lets a few angry, self centered, often ignorant people change our situation for the worse. And it seems to happen more and more.
 
Irene Wilde said:
In a three-ring binder somewhere, or on a computer file somewhere, there is a policy, in writing, about the state laws regarding physically restraining students, the district policy, and the school guidelines. Either these were followed or they weren't. For a 5 year old to be in wrist and ankle restraints in the back of a police car...I have to think something happened along the way that was more than taking jelly beans away -- that may have been a starting point, but it's a mighty long down rock n' roll from jelly beans to "Cops -- The Early Years."
Click to expand...

Supposing that calling the police was in the protocols (by the way, having seen the video it appears that more than 'minutes' have passed), one would question the actions of the *police* rather than the school or the teachers. These people should be trained professionals at dealing with disturbed individuals... but perhaps their training does not include dealing with 5 year olds, and so they just did what they would do with someone of any age.

I think far more unfortunate is that the media got a hold of this story in the first place. Rather than dealing and resolving the matter in quiet discussion between the school, the police and the girl's family, it's turned into a free-for-all blame-fest which has meant that the girl has been enrolled elsewhere and one can probably guess she was never told that her actions were inappropriate. Does this show her that what she did was wrong??
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top