Truth

[kafro]

What is "truth" to you guys? We are learning about this in english and was curious about what other people think about it outside of our class. What we are learning is that there are many types of truth, personal truth, factual truth, and so on. But the main "truth" is what is a big mystery to everyone. How do we know what is true? Is what is true just based off of our own experiences? Is truth to me different from truth to you? I'd love to hear peoples thoughts and rants about what "truth" is...thanks!

 

[True@1stLight]

truth with a small t , as in knowledge of propositional facts, or Truth with a capital T as in universal all encompassing Truths?

I know it sounds picky, but this is an epistemological question and each type refers to very different ideas.

 

[kafro]

the capitol T one, Truth. Like what is right and wrong, stuff like that

 

[novella]

One idea about truth is that the truth of something is measured by how accurately it represents the thing it purports to represent.

For example, a scene in a theater or a film may be described as "true" by someone who feels it represents something in their reality well.

An abstract painting may be said to have truth if it elicits a feeling in the viewer that corresponds to something the viewer expects it to represent.

The truth in a relationship between people may be measured by how accurately they each represent their underlying motives and emotions to each other.

There are always perverse examples of what one may view as True. For instance, for some people religion is The Truth, while for others it is an obvious hoax. Their measure of the truth of that religion's representation is completely at odds.

For that matter, can any system of beliefs have truth, unless it corresponds somehow with reality? I believe in gravity, a falling object has truth, it corresponds with what I have seen before. But what about placing a high truth value on a completely unsupported system of beliefs?

(was that ranty enough??)

 

[bobbyburns]

How do we know what is true? Is what is true just based off of our own experiences? Is truth to me different from truth to you?

I don't know, is truth an idea? is it something that can be known? if it is, then it can be cultivated, pushed around and twisted in any way you like. is that truth? or is it a process that is constantly changing? the demand to be secure inevitably breeds fear and violence. this seeking for truth is nothing more than desire. is truth desire? can it be sought after? if you stop seeking, will you come to the end of that hallway? bright light. big questions.

most of us are caught in a contradiction that exists between the self, which has the ability to change the world, and the world, which has nothing to do with the self.

 

[Crystal]

....

most of us are caught in a contradiction that exists between the self, which has the ability to change the world, and the world, which has nothing to do with the self.

Bobby, what did you mean? (hope everything went well with you.)

In Buddarism, there is a saying which goes like "what we see by eyes, what we hear by ears, what we feel by touching, etc might not be true", which I found made some sense.


from dictionary.com----


truth ( P ) Pronunciation Key (trth)
n. pl. truths (trthz, trths)
Conformity to fact or actuality.
A statement proven to be or accepted as true.
Sincerity; integrity.
Fidelity to an original or standard.

Reality; actuality.
often Truth That which is considered tobe the supreme reality and to have ultimate meaning and value of existence.

 

[kafro]

what i've come to believe is that Truth is different for every single person. It changes from person to person based of how they have lived, the experiences they've had, everything that has affected their life all comes into play on what they see Truth as. And again i don't believe there is a true "right and wrong" (sorry religious folks) becuase it will differ from person to person based on their life expieriences. this is not a complete thought though so i am having trouble fully embracing the idea, so thats kinda why i made this post....

thanks for all those that replied to my post i LOVE hearing people's views on stuff like this. otheres feel free to post also every post will be read and appreciated.

 

[True@1stLight]

Absolute Truth.....If it does exist, then we have to answer whether we can actually get to that Truth. In the case of Moral Absolutes, I'm not a believer in absolute truth. In most cases, it seems to be something closer to pragmatic truth anyway. Of course, what is pragmatic for one person, is condemning to another person's life goals. So it seems a plurality of power rules in deciding absolutes.

Wow, I just realized that I'm extremely tired, and the screen is becoming blurry. So, I'm going to stop rambling now....g'night

 

[mr_michel]

if all that its true, then whats a lie?

 

[True@1stLight]

if all that its true, then whats a lie?

See this is why I asked them to distinguish between Capital T or small t truth......Capital T refers to Absolute Truths......

Certainly there are other types of truth that portray propositional facts, acquaintance facts, and procedural knowledge, about the world....In this regard it can be very clear when someone is lying.

 

[mr_michel]

but then theres also a lie at a philosophical (spelling please) level
that can be even more subjective than "true"

 

[True@1stLight]

but then theres also a lie at a philosophical (spelling please) level
that can be even more subjective than "true"

I'm not sure what you mean by either part of this sentence as I'm not sure how you're using true....and I don't know what you mean by philosophical level.

 

[kafro]

ok, being so many types of turth, i have come to understand that i perceive turth in a cognitive realativistic way, but not completely, for on material issues i follow scientific and logical truth, but on social, moral, and cognitive issues i am a relativist. i am not a complete relativist because i do believe in some absolute truths and that their are flaws in its theory but i do believe many of its points to be valid.

 

[novella]

ok, being so many types of turth, i have come to understand that i perceive turth in a cognitive realativistic way, but not completely, for on material issues i follow scientific and logical truth, but on social, moral, and cognitive issues i am a relativist. i am not a complete relativist because i do believe in some absolute truths and that their are flaws in its theory but i do believe many of its points to be valid.

When you talk about "relative truth" you should ask yourself "relative to what?"

Pick something you would define as a relative truth, and you will find that it is relatively true only in terms of what it purports to represent.

For this reason, absolute truth is a misnomer. All truth is relative.

To say that something is an absolute truth is to say that it just IS. In that case, it would not be described as true. The measure of truth does not apply.

This is why the term "absolute truth" is most often associated with religious belief. It is an attempt on the part of the religion's promotors to disconnect judgments of truth (which would damage their 'business') from the system of beliefs they promote.

Try to disconnect "absolute truth" from belief and you find that the concept of truth becomes irrelevant. How "true" is the tree growing in your front yard? Is it absolutely true? The term "truth" does not apply to things that ARE themselves; it applies to representations alone.

 

[Crystal]

......." is the tree growing in your front yard? Is it absolutely true? The term "truth" does not apply to things that ARE themselves; it applies to representations alone.

The statement of 'things that ARE themselves', I suppose, implies or has to do with the answer to question of "what"; while the statement of 'it applies to represtations' has to do with the answers to question of 'how'. Therefore, the term '' truth'' does not apply to what things ARE (their nature), but to how they are.

ermm, was that what you meant?? or did I misunderstand you?

By the way, Good morning & Have a good day, people.

 

[novella]

The statement of 'things that ARE themselves', I suppose, implies or has to do with the answer to question of "what"; while the statement of 'it applies to represtations' has to do with the answers to question of 'how'. Therefore, the term '' truth'' does not apply to what things ARE (their nature), but to how they are.

ermm, was that what you meant?? or did I misunderstand you?

By the way, Good morning & Have a good day, people.

Well, I guess the distinction I would draw is between things that are themselves and things that are representations of something.

In this way, a book (fiction or nonfiction) is a representation of a potential "reality." A proclamation of love is a representation of emotions that may or may not exist. And so we judge these things by a measure of truth.

But I KNOW how I feel, and so I don't judge the truth of that emotion, though I might judge my own expression of it (have I captured the true essence of that emotion in my expression?)

 

[True@1stLight]

I'm not sure that I agree with the reason why, but all truth I would say is relative.

Just some statistics.....
-only about 22% of American Adults believe that there are absolute truths
-40% of Christians think there is absolute truth
-16% of Roman Catholics believe there is absolute truth (heh)
-13% of people born since 1965 beleive in absolute truth

 

[True@1stLight]

if all that its true, then whats a lie?

Something along the lines of an intentional misrepresentation of what you believe reality to be.

 

[Zolipara]

Truth is subjective.
Truth is what you belive is right until you are proven wrong.
Sometimes truth can be what you belive is right even if you are proven wrong.

 

[True@1stLight]

Sometimes truth can be what you belive is right even if you are proven wrong.

hrm......I suppose this depends on your view of what knowledge is ......if you take an evidentialist view, then if you are proven wrong it is not truth no matter what you believe. Truth in such a sense is the relation to reality. I suppose this also brings in what you believe about reality. Lots of questions arise from the word truth, it makes it difficult to state a quick belief without using ambivalent terms.