Visions of God

[Sitaram]

I was just now reading a thread here about a knight who has a vision of God in a forest. I was suddenly reminded of a dream I had 15 years ago, in which I had a vision of God. It was a very unusual dream, and once I awakened, I immediately wrote it down. Here is what I wrote. I do not claim that it is anything more than a dream, but it was a most curious experience.

Seeing God

Just as when you stand at seashore...
and you can see to the horizon...
the curvature of the earth...
In the dream, I could see to the horizon... and I saw a little, triangular cloud on horizon...
and in dream, I instantly knew it was Bhagawan... (which means He who posseses every wealth, every opulence) It spoke to me, saying....

"I am coming to see you"

The voice was the same intensity and clarity... whether the cloud was far away or up close
So the cloud came to me... and it was enormous.... and eclipsed all else... and inside the cloud...
I saw the swirling, alternating images, in no particular order, of ...

Jesus, Buddha and Krishna, who represent the three religions that I had seriously practiced in my life... I could also see other images... but not distinct... and after I woke...

I decided that these were othere Avataric forms.... of religions I had not practiced...So I could not recognize them clearly

I knew that I was supposed to hold up my right hand to the cloud
and He (It?- genderless you understand, but the English language always says He for God)... It inscribed red glowing symbols in the palm of my hand...So when I looked at my palm,... I saw the swirling, alternating images of

OM, which is Hindu, ... The Wheel of The Dharma, which is Buddhist, and Yin Yang, which is Taoist... (but no Christian symbol appeared in my hand)

In dream, I knew that it was a good thing, gift, and a sign that one day I would achieve God-Realization. So I looked at the Cloud, and said,...

"Why do you do such a nice thing for me... when so many times in my life...
... I have cursed you bitterly for creating existence, and putting me in it to suffer

It answered saying

"Although I am in every religion, I am beyond all religions...
I am beyond all dualities... of Good / Evil, of Love / Hate, of Pleasure/Pain....
.... your anger, your bitterness,
does not bother Me at all....
there is no "bad" thing which you could do,
.... or "good" thing which you could fail to do...
which would prevent Me from perfecting you to that purpose
for which I ultimately created you.

So, in the dream , I said

"I have just one question...

(I was not conscious of this question in waking life)

I asked,

"Is it true that, in this existence, we are protected by Maya (or Illusion)?"

Bhagawan answered, saying:

"Yes, this is true. If it were not for the protection of Maya...
.... you would see that I am all things, but that would be a very
difficult vision for your soul to endure...
if you were not properly prepared."

Then Bhagawan said,

"You must remain in the Samsara of Existence for a few more lifetimes,
and be purified through suffering."

And then, in the dream, Bhagawan suddenly started to depart, to go away, just like that,... slowly...
and I felt much anxiety,.... "What should I do , I thought...
Bhagawan came and did these things and said these things,... and now is just going away...
should I kneel, should I bow, should I say a prayer, should I say thank you ???
but Bhagawan knew my thoughts and answered me saying ...

"I do not need your prayers. I DO NOT NEED ANYTHING...
if prayers and worship are necessary,
they are necessary FOR YOU...
they are not necessary TO ME..
This is not a QUID-PRO-QUO relationship,
you do something for Me, I do something for you...
you dont do something for Me,
I dont do something for you....
No... thats not the way it works...

and then I woke up...

 

[Occlith]

Sitaram, Did this dream have any influence upon your religious beliefs or have any particular significance to you at the time?

 

[Sitaram]

Sitaram, Did this dream have any influence upon your religious beliefs or have any particular significance to you at the time?

Good question! Yes, the dream had many effects upon my life. (After I posted just now, I realize your question is about the influence on my religious beliefs, but my instinct was to speak of the effect upon my life, so in a subsequent post, I shall try to address your question more precisely).

I wanted to write about the dream, and tell others, so I created my very first website at geocities.com, calling it "Hinduism and Interfaith Dialogues". I worked hard to learn enough html commands to create that simple website. But then I began posting or "blogging" there each day, by adding a new page, until after 6 years, there were over 400 browser pages (and some browser pages can print out to 50 or 100 typed pages.

Every once in a great while, I would hear from some interesting person who had stumbled across my website. One college student wrote me to say that he had been reading it obsessively for two weeks straight, and that his preoccupation was jeopardizing his grades.

The site remained for 9 years, but was shut down by geocities after many Muslims complained that I was too critical of Islam on certain pages.

Perhaps less than 10 percent of my writings there were concerned with Qur'an, Hadith, and the life of Prophet Muhammed.

I started my site in 1998. Each page had free tracking code embedded in it to report how many people a day visited each page, and what countries they were from.

The week before the World Trade Center attack, someone in South America visited ALL 460 browser pages! I never saw that happen before or since. Some of what I wrote conjectured about what the future might hold with regard to terrorism.

Quite by chance, I posted one page entitled "Emergency, Dial 911", which was actually about Book 9 of the Bhagavad Gita, verse 11, where God (Krishna) says, (paraphrased from memory) "At times I incarnate in human form, but the wicked never recognize my true identity." The very next page which I posted at my site, after that page, decribes a scenario in which the Kaaba in Mecca is destroyed by a surgical strike. I was amaze recently to read that, just this past year or so, one U.S. senator or congressman actually spoke publicly about the notion of nuking the Kaaba.

Of course, I am only mentioning how the dream affected my Internet life.

I must give some thought to describe the other ways in which it affected my life.

Ideas are transformational.

I shall try to post more on this, later.

Thanks for asking.

 

[Sitaram]

I did not really answer Occlith's question this morning. Occlith asked whether my dream influenced my religious beliefs, but I described how it influenced my life in certain ways.

There was one sentence in the dream which I could not clearly remember upon waking. That sentence, or rather, phrase, was "Although I am in every religion..." might possibly have been "Although I am in many religions..."

I hesitated to write "in EVERY religion" because of my feelings regarding Islam.

Yet, I hesitated to write "in many religions" because that would imply that God is present in a majority of religions, but absent from a minority of religions.

The dream did confirm for me that my personal beliefs are far more Hindu-Buddhist than Judaeo-Christian.

I must have had that dream in 1996-97 around the week of Christmas. I remember it was Christmas because my wife and I were staying at her mother's, sleeping on the floor because there were too many guests and too few beds. I awoke in the middle of the night from the dream, and narrated it to my wife.

Here is another unusual dream I had about five years later:

A Dream About Lord Krishna - Sitaram

Today, as I am writing, it is Friday morning, August 16, 2002. In
the wee hours of Wednesday morning, August 14, I awoke from a most
unusual dream. As I slowly awakened, I smiled and chuckled to
myself, "I was dreaming about Lord Krishna." But suddenly, as I
became more fully awake, I did one of those movie-cartoon
double takes, "Wait! I had a dream about Lord Krishna!" I suddenly
realized the rarity and significance of such a dream.


I read that the Pope, shortly after his election, had a dream about
some urgent problem in the Catholic church. As he began to awaken,
he said to himself, "Oh, I must speak to the Pope at once about this
matter." But then, as he became more fully awake, he suddenly
realized, "Wait, I AM the Pope!"


By way of explanation, for readers who might not be familiar with
these matters, Lord Krishna is the subject of the Bhagavad-gita,
which is actually one Book or Chapter in the Mahabharat. Lord
Krishna is an Avatar (literally, One who comes down) or Incarnation of Lord
Vishnu. Lord Vishnu, in turn, is one of the three Persons of the
Hindu Trinity of Bramha, Vishnu, Shiva (who are seen as the Creative,
Preserving and Destructive aspects of God). A belief in Lord Krishna
as "God in human form" is analogous to the Christian belief that God
incarnates and takes human form as Jesus Christ.



In my dream, Lord Krishna was sitting right before me, facing me.
His eyes were His most amazing and memorable feature, lotus-like,
large and limpid, filled with feeling and knowing compassion. Also
with us in this dream were my 18 year-old stepson, who is Catholic,
and my 84 year-old father, who describes himself as an Atheist.


What was said in the dream was of great importance, but what
impressed me more about the dream was that there was much to be
learned from the nonverbal aspects of the dream (or the dream's "body
language" if you will, which I will attempt to explain as I narrate
the dream).


In my dream, the first thing I did was ask Lord Krishna a direct
question: "Is it true that no one, not even God, can completely know
and understand and experience Being (Existence) without incarnating
and taking bodily form and experiencing Reality as a finite embodied
being?" Upon hearing my question (though He seemed to hear as one
distracted by many other concerns Who has very briefly consented to
an audience), Lord Krishna looked directly at me for a moment with
utmost intensity (gathering His attention away from that myriad of
other matters), smiled knowingly, almost ironically, and then ever so
slightly and with some air of reluctance, nodded as if to
answer "Yes, this is true, even We (Lord Krishna) must incarnate to
fully experience Being, but this is an intimate secret of Our nature,
and since you surprise Us by stumbling upon such an important
question, We shall subtly indicate to you the truth about incarnation
and avatar-hood with a nod, but Our answer shall be an unspoken one,
since We do not care to have Our words quoted or misquoted."


My second and final question to Lord Krishna was a request: "Would
You please show to me your Universal Form so that my faith and
understanding might be strengthened and confirmed?" (You may see a
painting of Lord Krishna's Universal Form at page 309 of my website,


http://www.members.aol.com/Sitaram/page309.htm


Lord Krishna immediately began to kaleidoscopically transform before
my eyes with blinding speed into countless forms, some beautiful,
some terrifying. The emotions which I felt seeing this were awe,
wonder, amazement and dread, accompanied by the horripulation (hair
standing on end) which is described in various Hindu writings.


But equally incredible, in this dream, was that I glanced at my
stepson, during Lord Krishna's transmogrification, and to my
amazement, saw that my stepson was also displaying the Universal
Form, like a mirror reflecting everything that I was seeing in Lord
Krishna.

If you stand beneath a leafy tree on a bright, sunny day, you will notice in the shadow of the tree on the ground, little specks of sunlight. I never realized what those little spots of light actually are, until one day there was a partial eclipse of the sun and I was standing under a tree. As I watched those many spots of light in the shadow, they also partially eclipsed. Those spots of light are not simply fragments or rays of light, as I had always assumed, but are actually camera obscura images of the sun itself, and mimick the sun. The "lens" which focuses those images is the tiny paths or openings between all the leaves. My point in mentioning this is that my stepson also displayed the transformations in the dream because each person is like one of those camera obscura images of the sun, mirroring and mimicking the sun's image.


After a few moments, Lord Krishna returned to his familiar and
friendly, Lotus-eyed form, and then disappeared.


I looked at my father, to see his reaction to all that we had
witnessed, thinking "surely having experienced these things, he will
no longer be an Atheist, but will have some belief." But my father
saw and heard nothing. He walked over to a small table which had
some incense burning, sniffed the smoke and said "these must be drugs
of some sort, for you two to make such fantastic claims." My father
having said this, the dream ended and I awoke.


The night before my dream, I had gone to an Indian restaurant and
dined on Saag Panir (a vegetarian dish) with rice and mango
chutney. Near my table, hanging on the wall, was a large painting
of Lord Krishna and the Gopis in the Rasalila Dance. I frequently
gazed at the painting and contemplated the theology of the Rasalila.
(You may read an account of the theology of the Rasalila at page 14
of my website,

http://www.members.aol.com/Sitaram/page014.htm


I felt a great urge to explain the theology of the Rasalila to my waiter, but
when I asked him where he was from, he said Bangladesh, so I assumed
he is Muslim and would not take an interest in the Rasalila.

 

[Sitaram]

When I read the passage (below) from the following thread, then I decided to post about my own dreams and visions here.

Et pourquoi pas?


http://www.bookandreader.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12073&highlight=knight+vision

And, as they passed by that dark wood, one knight of those that rode,
missing his comrades, wandered far away, and returned to them no more;
and they, sorely grieving, rode on without him, mourning him as one dead.

Now, when they reached the fair castle towards which they had been
journeying, they stayed there many days, and made merry; and one night,
as they sat in cheerful ease around the logs that burned in the great
hall, and drank a loving measure, there came the comrade they had lost,
and greeted them. His clothes were ragged, like a beggar's, and many sad
wounds were on his sweet flesh, but upon his face there shone a great
radiance of deep joy.

And they questioned him, asking him what had befallen him: and he told
them how in the dark wood he had lost his way, and had wandered many days and nights, till, torn and bleeding, he had lain him down to die.

Then, when he was nigh unto death, lo! through the savage gloom there
came to him a stately maiden, and took him by the hand and led him on
through devious paths, unknown to any man, until upon the darkness of the wood there dawned a light such as the light of day was unto but as a
little lamp unto the sun; and, in that wondrous light, our way-worn
knight saw as in a dream a vision, and so glorious, so fair the vision
seemed, that of his bleeding wounds he thought no more, but stood as one entranced, whose joy is deep as is the sea, whereof no man can tell the depth.

And the vision faded, and the knight, kneeling upon the ground, thanked
the good saint who into that sad wood had strayed his steps, so he had
seen the vision that lay there hid.

And the name of the dark forest was Sorrow; but of the vision that the
good knight saw therein we may not speak nor tell.

 

[Sitaram]

Here is one "waking dream" experience which I had:

Remembrance is so important. In the movie "Shall We Dance", the wife tells the detective, "We need a witness to our lives."

I found a religious pamphlet in the street once, I think by Tony Alamo. I don't care much for his overall theology, but the entire tract was based on one sentence from the Bible: "And God remembered Noah."

Perhaps remembrance is a form of resurrection, where we are remembered in the mind of God.

One might make a play upon words and say re-MEMBERED, where our limbs come together once again as in the vision of the prophet Ezekiel, where God asks Ezekiel, "Shall these dry bones live?" And Ezekiel answers, "Lord, Thou knowest."

Perhaps to know is to remember. Socrates, in his dialogue with Meno, suggests as much, implying that the unlettered slave boy's a priori recollection of a Euclidean theorem is proof of the soul's immortality.

Mothers, tucking their babes in bed, always ask, “Did you REMEMBER, to say your prayers.”

One day, I decided to visit a Reform Jewish synagogue, but got there one hour early, so the Roman Catholic Hispanic janitor let me in. The place was empty.

I go up to the front pew, and I’m sitting there, looking at the
sanctuary, the Torah Scrolls (inside) etc etc...

When suddenly, in my mind, comes three very strong loud
thoughts, one right after another, almost like it wasn’t my own
thoughts but rather an inner monologue or stream of consciousness.

The first thought : "A thought or memory in the mind of God must
certainly have more, greater "reality" than any sensible,
palpable, physical thing.

The second thought: "Who amongst us would ever be forgotten in "The
Mind of God?"

Then, the third thought came ...

"You will be remembered after the fashion which you have cast yourself by your own free-will actions; if bitter angry wretches.. you shall be remembered as a wretch, but if humble, grateful, patient and cheerful in personality, then you shall be remembered as cheerful, AND THEREIN LIES HEAVEN AND HELL."

What were those "three strong loud thoughts" which seemed to come
from nowhere?

Well, who can say? Obviously, I drew my own conclusions as years went
by.

But one can see how this... "way in which you are remembered"..
fits in with the river of fire theology of Greek Orthodox... and the
Zoroastrian lake of fire...... and reconciles how a good God who is
Love... could still somehow... "torment" beings...

The torment IS THE LOVE... to be in the face of perfect
love... and to be forever .. unworthy...

 

[Occlith]

Sitaram, thanks for the replies. I visited your posted link to your site and read a few pages.

Your comments on memory/remember had me thinking of some things that came into my mind as I read your posts. And as you know, one thought leads to another, although not always on the same subject.

I too have seen the effect of the sunlight through the trees during an eclipse. It brought to mind images I have seen of this effect. Here is a link to one. http://slivvy.altervista.org/eclipse_imgs/IMG_6031.html

On your site, the page "Argument with a Moslem" particularly comments on good works, reminded me of something I had read. I looked it up and found this:

Mere talk about religion is only an intellectual exercise --Of what use are grand phrases about Atma on the lips of those who hate and injure one another? --Religion is kindness.

 

[Sitaram]

Occlith, fabulous photo. Just like what I saw during an eclipse around 1970.

Yes, religion is kindness.

The Epistle of James says (paraphrasing from memory): "True religion is simply this: to comfort widows and orphans in their need, and to remain unspotted from the world."

Micah 6:8 "What doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God."

This passage from Micah resembles Deuteronomy 10:12 " What doth the Lord thy God require of thee but to fear the Lord thy God, to walk in all his ways..."

I had read somewhere that it was Augustine who first said something about "If you want to talk the talk, you have to walk the walk" but I could not find reference to this in qoogle. But while searching I did find:

"There is no salvation outside the church" (Salus extra ecclesiam non est) (De Bapt. IV, cxvii.24) which is from Augustines work on Baptism.