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Warp 9, Engage!

leckert

leckert

New Member
Is it possible to exceed the speed of light? Einstein didn't think so. Hawkins hasn't promulgated a definite opinion (that I have read).

I think that acheiving light speed is the next huge leap for our technological society. I also think it will require something unlike anything we currently have. I am excited about the folks in the upcoming generation who haven't been as steeped in the impossibilities like folks my age, and my parent's age were.

I believe that the new technology that enables us to break the light barrier will be the stepping stone, and that once we acheive 299,792,458 meters per second, multiplying that speed will be simply a matter of 'turning it up'. Obviously, this will only be possible with a new approach, a radical approach. Nothing we have ever seen before.

I think it is possible. This isn't based on any scientific evidence or theories, but solely on the romantic little voice in me that would be totally devastated to learn that it was impossible. I believe it because I really want it to be true!

Does anyone else share my opinion?

How many think I am off-base and unrealistic?

What technologies that are out there at the moment have the potential to lead to this next milestone?

I'm not looking for a debate, although one might be fun to watch, I am just interested in learning from this broad sampling of our World culture.
 
It isn't possible :)

It's not possible because you would destroy cause and effect. Something cannot happen before the effect.

For example: If left Earth and headed for Mars at sub light speed. I would leave then arrive at mars.

Cause: Me leaving for Mars
Effect: Me travelling and arriving at mars.

If I were to exceed the speed of light then I would have arrived before I left which is not possible.

Another example: If I throw a stone faster than a speed of light at a window. The window would suddenly smash for no reason at all. I haven't thrown the stone yet. The future has somehow happened before the past.
 
I don't understand the logic. (seriously. no sarcasm here at all, I just don't get it...)

Let's say Mars is what, 120,000,000 miles away?

and the speed of light is 186,000 miles per second.

so then you would leave Earth and arrive at Mars in about 10 minutes.

That seems to my mind to be distinctly after you left. :confused:

Maybe we don't increase our speed, but "warp" the universe to us? (my brother mentioned this theory to me, and I'm not sure I understand it...)
 
No, if you travel at the speed of light there is no problem. If you travel FASTER than light is where the problem comes in. Do you see?

Say we are both facing each other. I throw you a ball. You see me throw it and you catch it. This is normal cause and effect.

Now, if I was travelling FASTER than the speed of light then I will have thrown the ball and you caught it BEFORE I throw the ball. Do you see? Cause and effect are broken. It's not possible for the cause of something to take place before the effect of something.

There are many theories being able to travel vast distance. None of them exceed light speed but are ways around it.

Worm holes might be possible and have been observed to exist. the only problem is they exist at the quantum level and would take a VAST unimaginable amount of energy to open and maintain. Also, it's not known if it's even possible to pass through them.
 
Wabbit said:
No, if you travel at the speed of light there is no problem. If you travel FASTER than light is where the problem comes in. Do you see?

Say we are both facing each other. I throw you a ball. You see me throw it and you catch it. This is normal cause and effect.

Now, if I was travelling FASTER than the speed of light then I will have thrown the ball and you caught it BEFORE I throw the ball. Do you see? Cause and effect are broken. It's not possible for the cause of something to take place before the effect of something.

There are many theories being able to travel vast distance. None of them exceed light speed but are ways around it.

Worm holes might be possible and have been observed to exist. the only problem is they exist at the quantum level and would take a VAST unimaginable amount of energy to open and maintain. Also, it's not known if it's even possible to pass through them.
Click to expand...

I think I am grasping what you are telling me. (I think...)

but does our recognition of something happening (i.e., seeing it happen) constitute it happening? I mean just because we see (or otherwise detect) the effect before the cause, does that mean it happened that way?

And what if the whole "cause/effect" thing only applies to sub-warp entities? What if things moving faster than the speed of light exist under an entirely new set of laws and theories? I mean, I'm not sure we can apply our sub-warp physics to a "warped" universe. Haven't other previously "known truths" been disproven in such circumstances?

(I refuse to let go!!! :D )
 
As Einstein proved space and time are one and the same. They are linked.

Light IS time. When I do something FASTER than light, ( in other words FASTER THAN TIME ), then I am doing something happened BEFORE I have actually taken that action. This is clearly impossible!

You see? :)

( sorry for the caps. just using them to make certain parts stand out for clarity :) )
 
Wabbit said:
As Einstein proved space and time are one and the same. They are linked.

Light IS time. When I do something FASTER than light, ( in other words FASTER THAN TIME ), then I am doing something happened BEFORE I have actually taken that action. This is clearly impossible!

You see? :)

( sorry for the caps. just using them to make certain parts stand out for clarity :) )
Click to expand...

Aren't there some theories out there now that challenge some of Einstein's findings? How do we know that he is right?

What if his theories apply to everything right up until you reach the point of light speed, then all bets are off?

Why isn't there a "Universal Theory" that applies to everything all the time? The absence of such a theory raises these questions in my mind.

(oh, and don't worry about the CAPS. I am completely unoffendable! I have skin like a waterbuffalo! )

:)
 
Aren't there some theories out there now that challenge some of Einstein's findings? How do we know that he is right?
Click to expand...

Why isn't there a "Universal Theory" that applies to everything all the time? The absence of such a theory raises these questions in my mind.
Click to expand...

There are many challenges to Einstein's theories. We don't know he is right :) I'm sure in some years to come we will have a better understanding of the way things work from a new theory. There is in fact a new theory that smashes all the old ones.

However... you still wouldn't be able to travel faster than the speed of light. We know light exists because we see it, right? No matter what theory comes along nobody is going to dispute that light exists. Space and time would still be linked. This is probable again by simple observation. If you look through a telescope you are looking back in time. Light takes time to travel one point to another.

You cannot travel faster than light because a cause would happen before the effect. Things don't just suddenly happen. We see the light that has travelled for a billion years and see a star exploding. The star had to explode first and then the light reach us. It's still impossible no matter what theory comes about :)


ALSO it's not possible to travel faster than light because you would cease to exist. You would be torn apart at the atomic level. Your entire atomic make up stretched and dissolved. NOTE: I'm very fuzzy on this part. I have never "studies" physics. Maybe clueless can tell you more on this part as she/he seems to have studied it.

However having said all that... it still maybe possible to travel great distance in a small amount of time. there are quite a few ways to obtain it

jump gates

worm holes

subspace dimensions

warping the fabric of space time

so you need not give up your dream! It just would not be obtained by travel faster than the speed of light :)
 
Intriguing concept, and very good answers Wabbit.

Was it also Einstein who theorized that travelling at light speed will result in time travel? I.e. If you spent one year in Real Time orbitting the planet at light speed, the number of years elapsed on Earth would be much, much, much more.


Forgive me if I butchered the theory, it's been a while since I studied physics.
 
Yes it was Einstein that found time and space are one and the same. :)

Don't worry about butchering the theory. Einstein is probably spinning in his grave at my posts :D
 
Wabbit said:
As Einstein proved space and time are one and the same. They are linked.

Light IS time. When I do something FASTER than light, ( in other words FASTER THAN TIME ), then I am doing something happened BEFORE I have actually taken that action. This is clearly impossible!

You see? :)

( sorry for the caps. just using them to make certain parts stand out for clarity :) )
Click to expand...

Light is time? You read a different physics book then I read. Time is a another dimension, but light?

Anyway, I agree that it isn't possible. When an object approaches light speed, it gets heavier. More velocity, more mass, more power required.
 
Quantum mechanics...

Quantum mechanics is open to many interpretations. Such experiments as the electron double slit experiment give results, which can be interpreted in many ways. One way is the Multiverse theory. This theory, proposed by David Deutsch, indicates that there exists a universe for every possibility.

Every time an event could have more than one outcome there is a universe created for each outcome.

In our universe a meteorite caused the extinction of the dinosaurs. A parallel universe exists in which the meteorite missed Earth, and possibly several others in which the meteorite struck another planet or was not formed at all.

In a parallel universe Hitler did not invade Russia and consequently won the Second World War. In yet another, Elvis is still alive.

This theory explains the double slit experiment by saying that quantum phenomena are the result of interactions across universes. When a single electron passes through a slit it interacts with the electron from a parallel universe, in which the electron went through the other slit, producing the pattern. This explains the pattern produced by passing one electron through the slit at a time.

But, wait! I can do even better than this...

Dont move.
 
We're getting there...

Simultaneous Time:

This is the essential concept which underlies all time travel techniques and enables the transcendence of the apparent linear nature of time...



... Experiencing timelessness (paradoxically a place in which all times exist at once) requires an expansion of consciousness; accessing a particular moment in time distinct from that apprised by the physical senses requires a focusing within such an expansive awareness, necessarily calling upon areas of self or mind not often utilized in day-to-day existence.


Wait. There's more.
 
StillILearn said:
Simultaneous Time:

This is the essential concept which underlies all time travel techniques and enables the transcendence of the apparent linear nature of time...



... Experiencing timelessness (paradoxically a place in which all times exist at once) requires an expansion of consciousness; accessing a particular moment in time distinct from that apprised by the physical senses requires a focusing within such an expansive awareness, necessarily calling upon areas of self or mind not often utilized in day-to-day existence.


Wait. There's more.
Click to expand...

This sounds like the theory explored in that Christopher Reeve movie "Somewhere in Time". I thought that was interesting, too, and begs the question "what is reality".

@Wabbit (or whomever):

My brother has expressed this "warping the fabric" of space / time to me as well. He made it sound kind of like an inchworm. We may not be able to get from the tail to the head, but if we warp the middle, the head comes to the tail. something like that.

Please keep in mind, I did not get past Trig before the hemorraging started, and math/physics are definitely not my field, though I do find this kind of stuff interesting, if a little incomprehensible.

And they used to believe, with as much conviction as Wabbit and Robert have, that if a man were to run the mile in less than 4 minutes, his lungs would explode, and his body would shut down. I think we need Space's answer to Robert Bannister to disprove this.

An idea that has been bouncing around in the vacuum that occupies the space between my ears:

I think, to take Mr. Spock out of context, that light is "pure energy". right?
And doesn't it also have mass?

Why can light not be used to propel a vessel? how can we harness the power of light the way a sail reins in the winds? wouldn't we then be able to at least match the light's speed?

Call me whacky. I've been called worse!
 
leckert said:
So, according to this tachyon thing, then, superluminous speed is possible?
Click to expand...

Time for a caesura.

(Ooops! I thought for a minute there I was in The Four Word Story.)

Sweet dreams, leckert -- just remember, you started this!
 
AFAIK Einstein's theory of relativity et al states that the speed of light can not be crossed. ie if you are travelling slower than the speed of light you can not go faster. However if you are travelling faster whoop dee do, there you are, but you are existing in a different space time environment to us and so we would not know you are there, or is it here? :confused:
 
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