50 Shades of Grey

[Laura173]

I agree with what you've said. But I've wondered if it still could be called "abuse" if she's consented to it. She was also told so many times in this book by Christian that she could leave if she wanted to; so there were always so many opportunities to pull out if she were unhappy.

I'm not talking about the sexual side of things, I'm talking the full on mental abuse. Many of the people I spoke to after reading the trilogy loved Mr Grey, especially after she had succeeded in "changing" him - this got me wondering how many women actually in abusive relationships would stay with their partner, because there is a chance he would change. You can say that they could leave if they wanted to but most don't. To tell you fully why I was left with these thoughts I'd have to read the trilogy again - something that would pain me because of the poor writing I had to sit through for three days!

 

[Prongs91]

Ah, so you think that men are capable of seeing through the novel as being a work of fiction and not allow their lives and mode of conduct to be influenced by it? Whereas women, if I follow your line of reasoning, are stupid and get "the wrong message"?


The world makes sense again. I shall go play with my (pink, of course) crayons now and have my Barbie dolls lead a fantasy life akin to Anastasia Steele's with Ken.

Actually, I remember saying a SENSIBLE man would see through this. As such, I also believe a SENSIBLE woman would also not allow their lives and mode of conduct, as you said, to be influenced by it. I never said women are stupid and will always get the wrong message.

50 Shades of Grey is a book written for women in the perspective of a woman so that the reader will fill her shoes when reading the book. So of course, the affects and reactions of the woman reading the book would be different to a man's. If the situation were switched and this were a book for men written in the perspective of Christian Grey, this might influence their perspective on casual relationships too.

 

[studentreader]

Ah, so you think that men are capable of seeing through the novel as being a work of fiction and not allow their lives and mode of conduct to be influenced by it? Whereas women, if I follow your line of reasoning, are stupid and get "the wrong message"?


The world makes sense again. I shall go play with my (pink, of course) crayons now and have my Barbie dolls lead a fantasy life akin to Anastasia Steele's with Ken.

I don't think this is what prongs91 is saying. Firstly Prongs91 said a 'sensible' man not a man and secondly anyone’s ideas and conduct can be influenced by reading fiction even if they recognise that it is fiction. This is why fiction can be so powerful. You should also remember that whilst you may be a strong minded woman who isn't easily influenced, some women (and men) are more easily influenced than you. These people who may be influenced in a negative manner by this novel are the people Prongs91 is referring to.

The novel suggests that entering into a sexual "agreement or contract" with a man (or woman) will end in a meaningful emotional relationship even if that person views the arrangement as purely casual. It also suggests that with persistence, someone's character can be changed and this may encourage women (or men) to stay in unhappy and possibly even abusive relationships or "agreements" believing that their partner can be reformed.

 

[Prongs91]

I'm not talking about the sexual side of things, I'm talking the full on mental abuse. Many of the people I spoke to after reading the trilogy loved Mr Grey, especially after she had succeeded in "changing" him - this got me wondering how many women actually in abusive relationships would stay with their partner, because there is a chance he would change. You can say that they could leave if they wanted to but most don't. To tell you fully why I was left with these thoughts I'd have to read the trilogy again - something that would pain me because of the poor writing I had to sit through for three days!

I feel your pain; it really is badly written. I nearly went crazy with the amount of times she said "holy shit!" nearly every few pages!

Many women in abusive relationships may well have the opportunity to leave their abusive partners, but they will not because of the partner's psychological/emotional manipulation of them. However, I'm not so convinced this is the case with Christian and Ana, because I don't think he is emotionally manipulating her to stay with him; in the first book, she found the lure of a sexual relationship with Christian too great to leave him but at the end of that book, she asked for the abuse, and when she got it, she was upset about it and left him so she finally used her power of choice.

 

[eclair]

The novel suggests that entering into a sexual "agreement or contract" with a man (or woman) will end in a meaningful emotional relationship even if that person views the arrangement as purely casual. It also suggests that with persistence, someone's character can be changed and this may encourage women (or men) to stay in unhappy and possibly even abusive relationships or "agreements" believing that their partner can be reformed.

Does the same not hold true for pretty much every 'romantic comedy' Hollywood churns out? Do 'chick-lit' books not perpetuate similar viewpoints? So why single out Shades of Grey?
I'd do away with all of them, not due to perceived effects (an individual should mind their own expectations) but because they are by and large rubbish.

 

[Laura173]

Does the same not hold true for pretty much every 'romantic comedy' Hollywood churns out? Do 'chick-lit' books not perpetuate similar viewpoints? So why single out Shades of Grey?
I'd do away with all of them, not due to perceived effects (an individual should mind their own expectations) but because they are by and large rubbish.

My husband says this all the time - he says I have a fake view of romance because of all the chicklit I read... he's probably right lol :whistling:

 

[eclair]

^ Heh.
Romance is whatever you want it to be. If the stuff in chicklit is what you like then that's fine and dandy.
Yes, it hurt to type the previous sentence.

 

[Laura173]

^ Heh.
Romance is whatever you want it to be. If the stuff in chicklit is what you like then that's fine and dandy.
Yes, it hurt to type the previous sentence.

:lol: If every man was like Hugh Grant the world would be a much more romantic place :whistling:

 

[eclair]

I suppose grumpy can be sexy. Look here:Hugh is a 'pain in the ass'

 

[Conscious Bob]

Do you think women who read this book will be given the wrong messages on what a casual relationship will entail and that these messages could damage one's emotional and sexual health?

No. In general it's young men that have the wrong message on casual relationships as they're influenced by the availability of internet porn and their peers.

 

[Prongs91]

No. In general it's young men that have the wrong message on casual relationships as they're influenced by the availability of internet porn and their peers.

What do you mean? How does porn influence the way a man would view a casual relationship? Surely it shouldn't because no-strings-attached relationships are pretty much just sex anyway?

Would women who watch porn be affected in the same way as you say that men do?

 

[canuck]

I've had a laugh reading all the posts here about these books (which I haven't read but have caught the drift of the plot without having to read the books) and am really amazed at how thinking and behaviour has changed since I was a young 'un although I suppose there is nothing really new, just more 'in your face' now.

 

[Conscious Bob]

What do you mean? How does porn influence the way a man would view a casual relationship? Surely it shouldn't because no-strings-attached relationships are pretty much just sex anyway?

Heh, given the context of your original question isn't that quite a misogynistic viewpoint?

Fifty Shades of Grey might be giving those weak minded gurlies the wrong impression they'll get flowers and chocolates out of casual relationships, whereas all right minded fellas know that casual relationships are all pretty much about sex...

Would women who watch porn be affected in the same way as you say that men do?

It's difficult to apply generalist terms to sexuality but as far as responding to pornography is concerned, gender does play a part.

 

[Prongs91]

Heh, given the context of your original question isn't that quite a misogynistic viewpoint?

Fifty Shades of Grey might be giving those weak minded gurlies the wrong impression they'll get flowers and chocolates out of casual relationships, whereas all right minded fellas know that casual relationships are all pretty much about sex...



It's difficult to apply generalist terms to sexuality but as far as responding to pornography is concerned, gender does play a part.

No, not misogynist at all. Another way I could also put it is that right-minded women would not expect more than sex out of a casual relationship and weak-minded men might do.

I agree on that part, actually. Gender plays a big part in pornography. I also think it does in the case of this book, since it is for girls. What I'm trying to do is to explore the ways in which it can adversely affect women and their perspectives on such things.

 

[Conscious Bob]

No, not misogynist at all. Another way I could also put it is that right-minded women would not expect more than sex out of a casual relationship and weak-minded men might do.

Then what do you think might be influencing those weak-minded men...?

 

[Polly Parrot]

No, not misogynist at all. Another way I could also put it is that right-minded women would not expect more than sex out of a casual relationship and weak-minded men might do.

Then why is this poll geared to women? And why did you not specify from the get-go that you assume that both women and men who may have a little screw loose or are hopeless romantics are the ones who might be affected by a novel such as this one?

Making the assumption that only men and women who are "weak-minded" (?) can be negatively influenced by these novels makes your poll somewhat redundant.

 

[Conscious Bob]

Making the assumption that only men and women who are "weak-minded" (?) can be negatively influenced by these novels makes your poll somewhat redundant.

I don't think we'll get a reply, this guy's the right-minded type. Used and abused, that's us.

 

[Hugh]

Mark Bauerlein says that this book is bad for our culture. You may not know who Bauerlein is, or what is supposed to be good for our culture, but he's gonna fill you in right now: The novel America needs in 2013 - CNN.com

 

[Prongs91]

Then why is this poll geared to women? And why did you not specify from the get-go that you assume that both women and men who may have a little screw loose or are hopeless romantics are the ones who might be affected by a novel such as this one?

Making the assumption that only men and women who are "weak-minded" (?) can be negatively influenced by these novels makes your poll somewhat redundant.

Because I am only looking at the way this novel will affect women, not men. As I stated before, this book is aimed towards women, so I wanted to see how the messages in this book can negatively affect them and their perspectives on casual sex. And because this book is written for women in the perspective of a woman, it could be expected that a woman reading this book may be influenced by it differently from a man reading it. I am only interested in how this could affect women.

It was actually you who assumed that I thought it was only women who are weak-minded. I believe that both men and women can be weak-minded under different influences, but I am wondering if 50 shades of Grey might be one of them for women.

I've kept an open mind about who could be affected by 50 shades of grey, otherwise this would not be an open discussion.

 

[Laura173]

Call me stupid but I'm not actually sure what casual sex has to do with it. I mean Ana and Christian are pretty much in a relationship, there's nothing casual about it.