bobbyburns
New Member
"free your mind, and your ass will follow."
--george clinton
--george clinton
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America being ridiculous...again
- Thread starter Stewart
- Start date
watercrystal said:
Hmm. I'm not quite sure what you're asking with some of the questions, but I'll try to answer and perhaps you can clarify if I didn't answer what you wanted to know.
Are aboriginal Americans (or Native Americans as they're known here) considered blacks? No. They're considered Native Americans as a whole, or by their particular tribe (Cherokee, Navajo, Cree, etc.) What used to be considered "reservations" a hundred years ago are now sovereign nations - a country within a country. Residents of Navajo land, for example, have their own police and Game & Fish and government structure. They may vote in national elections and such, but pay no federal taxes on income. There are no passports or such required to travel between U.S. and tribal lands, and they consider themselves citizens of the U.S., and of the state they live in, AS WELL as their tribal lands. Many of the tribes have developed casino complexes on tribal land, and tribe members are growing quite wealthy, because they share the profits among the members. There are still problems with unemployment and substance abuse, but as money is rolling in, there are more resources to fight the problems. They are equals in American society, and I don't think there's much racial tension as a whole. There are instances of problems (for example, an ancient skeleton was discovered on *former* native land, and there is an argument whether the skeleton should be returned to the tribe or kept with the archaeologists for study. The lawsuit continues...), but that's the case anywhere, I think. On the whole, their culture is respected and well-regarded.
Interracial marriages -- sure it's personal choice. That's the point. Choose your spouse or your friends without fear of intervention by the government, and without concern for the opinion of your neighbors or community. Nobody will break down your door or not allow you to buy things. That's the point of freedom.
Number of dropouts -- depends on the area. I don't think there's a national average, although I could be wrong. Within large cities, the proportion of blacks and Latinos is higher, but the reason is still under study. Nobody seems to know whether it's a problem with the quality of schools, or peer influence, or lack of family support (or (d) all of the above). In more rural areas, there is a higher instance of white drop-outs. I don't necessarily agree with some reports that it's income-based. I think, again, that it's personal choice. Kids either want to learn and succeed, or they don't think that school has any value in their lives. Income doesn't seem to be as much a factor, although it could affect the peer or family influence. My personal opinion is that there is a large number of people today that want the easy way out of life. They want to be the next American Idol, or actor, or win the lottery or make a fortune selling drugs. They want to jump to the top from the word "Go". Going from the mailroom to being a worker, to a middle manager to owning the company, taking years of hard work, is no longer interesting or valuable.
No, you're probably right about bias. Being able to step outside yourself to view your own opinions from a third party perspective isn't common. I do recognize that I have biases. I think everyone does. I don't know about pride, though. If a person has considered the options, and they're satisfied that they've made the correct choice for their life, then they're likely to be happy (or proud) of that choice.
What makes some people different is having the willingness to listen to other viewpoints -- so I add my thanks to the moderator of this list for holding that trembling finger away from the "Closed" key.
Everybody gets to have an opinion. But like books, we don't always come away with the same opinion.
Cathy
True@1stLight
New Member
watercrystal said:
After I followed the white rabbit he told me......and then did something very inappropriate with a carrot.
Cathy C said:Hmm. I'm not quite sure what you're asking with some of the questions, but I'll try to answer and perhaps you can clarify if I didn't answer what you wanted to know.
Are aboriginal Americans (or Native Americans as they're known here) considered blacks? No. They're considered Native Americans as a whole, or by their particular tribe (Cherokee, Navajo, Cree, etc.) What used to be considered "reservations" a hundred years ago are now sovereign nations - a country within a country. Residents of Navajo land, for example, have their own police and Game & Fish and government structure. They may vote in national elections and such, but pay no federal taxes on income. There are no passports or such required to travel between U.S. and tribal lands, and they consider themselves citizens of the U.S., and of the state they live in, AS WELL as their tribal lands. Many of the tribes have developed casino complexes on tribal land, and tribe members are growing quite wealthy, because they share the profits among the members. There are still problems with unemployment and substance abuse, but as money is rolling in, there are more resources to fight the problems. They are equals in American society, and I don't think there's much racial tension as a whole. There are instances of problems (for example, an ancient skeleton was discovered on *former* native land, and there is an argument whether the skeleton should be returned to the tribe or kept with the archaeologists for study. The lawsuit continues...), but that's the case anywhere, I think. On the whole, their culture is respected and well-regarded.
Interracial marriages -- sure it's personal choice. That's the point. Choose your spouse or your friends without fear of intervention by the government, and without concern for the opinion of your neighbors or community. Nobody will break down your door or not allow you to buy things. That's the point of freedom.
Number of dropouts -- depends on the area. I don't think there's a national average, although I could be wrong. Within large cities, the proportion of blacks and Latinos is higher, but the reason is still under study. Nobody seems to know whether it's a problem with the quality of schools, or peer influence, or lack of family support (or (d) all of the above). In more rural areas, there is a higher instance of white drop-outs. I don't necessarily agree with some reports that it's income-based. I think, again, that it's personal choice. Kids either want to learn and succeed, or they don't think that school has any value in their lives. Income doesn't seem to be as much a factor, although it could affect the peer or family influence. My personal opinion is that there is a large number of people today that want the easy way out of life. They want to be the next American Idol, or actor, or win the lottery or make a fortune selling drugs. They want to jump to the top from the word "Go". Going from the mailroom to being a worker, to a middle manager to owning the company, taking years of hard work, is no longer interesting or valuable.
No, you're probably right about bias. Being able to step outside yourself to view your own opinions from a third party perspective isn't common. I do recognize that I have biases. I think everyone does. I don't know about pride, though. If a person has considered the options, and they're satisfied that they've made the correct choice for their life, then they're likely to be happy (or proud) of that choice.
Cathy, you surprised me. and I thank(!) you for taking the efforts to provide me the answers.
Cathy C said:What makes some people different is having the willingness to listen to other viewpoints -- so I add my thanks to the moderator of this list for holding that trembling finger away from the "Closed" key.
agreed on that. Thanks for the moderators. (i kinda a little surprised that they did not rush to close this thread.)
True, what were you talking about? I did not understand.
novella
Active Member
Cathy C said:
In fact, 66 decided not to air it. Just for the record. What kind of news do you get down there in Texas?
From the New York Times:
The Federal Communications Commission says it has received thousands of comments, most of them critical about the decision of some ABC affiliates to broadcast the 1998 film "Saving Private Ryan" last Thursday. According to Nielsen Media Research, 159 of ABC's 225 affiliated stations showed the movie, which graphically depicts World War II carnage and includes vulgarities. The film was unavailable to viewers in Dallas, Atlanta and dozens of other cities - nearly 30 percent of the United States, Nielsen reported. ABC was obligated to air the Steven Spielberg, left, film in its entirety and without censoring under its licensing agreement with the film's studio, DreamWorks. ABC said that broadcasting the film, on Veterans Day, was "a timely tribute to the sacrifices and valor of all Americans engaged in service to their country." JOHN FILES
Hey I wouldn't let my kids watch the thing either because they're little. Thats one of many great things about America. I am free to turn the TV on or off as I see fit. And as a parent I should monitor what my kids watch. I definitely DON'T want my four year old asking me "Daddy why is that mans head exploding?" (which she'd probably do--theres enough of that crap on the news these days.)
Personally I think that editing movies for TV is ridiculous and always have. If you have to edit it for family viewing its probably not fit for family viewing anyway. Why ruin a perfectly good movie? But thats where the money is. Huge companies will pay jillions of dollars to have their ads run during Saving Private Ryan on Veterans Day so it'll be patriotic when we go out and buy their stuff.
What it actually boils down to is whether or not parents are willing to do what it takes to watch out for their kids when it comes to TV violence--which has been proven to be not good for kids. Instead of plopping on the couch after supper and turning on the tube so it can babysit, why not play games, color with crayons, or if you MUST watch TV, pop in a good kids show?
Personally I think that editing movies for TV is ridiculous and always have. If you have to edit it for family viewing its probably not fit for family viewing anyway. Why ruin a perfectly good movie? But thats where the money is. Huge companies will pay jillions of dollars to have their ads run during Saving Private Ryan on Veterans Day so it'll be patriotic when we go out and buy their stuff.
What it actually boils down to is whether or not parents are willing to do what it takes to watch out for their kids when it comes to TV violence--which has been proven to be not good for kids. Instead of plopping on the couch after supper and turning on the tube so it can babysit, why not play games, color with crayons, or if you MUST watch TV, pop in a good kids show?
I'm a bit divided on this. Normally I would'nt have been, but a few weeks ago, I was watching a documentary on the UKTV history channel during the early afternoon. It was a Timewatch re-run with dramatised accounts of a German tank driver in Russia during WWII. One clip showed Nazi tank crews gunning down Russian POW's. Nothing gory, just guns blazing and then a shot of men lying on the floor.
But my 3 year old boy piped up, 'Oh they're all dead, daddy why do men shoot people?'
Difficult thing to explain to someone of his age.
But my 3 year old boy piped up, 'Oh they're all dead, daddy why do men shoot people?'
Difficult thing to explain to someone of his age.
Marquis Rex
New Member
When I was younger I used to think that the opposite of War was Peace.
As I grew older I came to realise that the opposite of war is infact Opression....
As I grew older I came to realise that the opposite of war is infact Opression....
bobbyburns
New Member
you had some growing up to do.
bobbyburns
New Member
what the marquis is saying is that war is ok sometimes. it's necessary to thwart and dismantle dictatorships. in certain parts of the world it has brought about peace. I don't agree with that, but, then, I'm not a big boy.
Bobby, what about Hitler?
I know that the second world war might have never begun if certain actions were taken BUT let's just take it to the point where war has broken out. Hitler is on the rampage and intent on taking over the world.
What to do? Would war still be wrong?
By the way, I am not making any statements for or against here. I am just playing devil's advocate and hoping to learn something
I know that the second world war might have never begun if certain actions were taken BUT let's just take it to the point where war has broken out. Hitler is on the rampage and intent on taking over the world.
What to do? Would war still be wrong?
By the way, I am not making any statements for or against here. I am just playing devil's advocate and hoping to learn something
bobbyburns
New Member
fair enough. if the allies hadn't declared war on hitler then millions of people would've died. but then what happened after they did? millions of people died fighting in the war. people see pride in that, but all I see is acid and venom.
Yes, but the point I was really trying to get at is what if nobody had stood against him and he had won. The world is now under the Nazi boot. There are death camps in each country putting people to death. The officail language every where is German. You have no freedoms. You have no rights. You have to be in the Hitler youth till you are 21 and even more people have died than in the whole of the war that would have been waged!
Is it worth fighting a war to prevent something of a greater evil?
Is it worth fighting a war to prevent something of a greater evil?