ValkyrieRaven88
New Member
It's a cool title. You don't have to freak out when people who know more Latin then you do correct you on a minor mistranslation you were given.
-
Welcome
to BookAndReader! We LOVE books and hope you'll join us in sharing your favorites and experiences along with your love of reading with our community. Registering for our site is free and easy, just CLICK HERE!
Already a member and forgot your password? Click here.
An novella opportunity.
- Thread starter manuscriptx
- Start date
novella
Active Member
Yeah, really. If you think that little correction is deeply unfriendly, you are NOT going to like the editing process.
By the way, this scheme of yours is somewhat assbackwards. Why not just write something and then sell it to a publisher? I guarantee that this outfit you're talking with is not planning to pay you, at least not in the 'here's money for your work' kind of way. It's absolutely fishy. Definitely do not give them any money.
By the way, this scheme of yours is somewhat assbackwards. Why not just write something and then sell it to a publisher? I guarantee that this outfit you're talking with is not planning to pay you, at least not in the 'here's money for your work' kind of way. It's absolutely fishy. Definitely do not give them any money.
manuscriptx
New Member
Title give meaning.
A title is exactly that. A title. IT doesn't mean anything until something else gives it meaning. As I originally said, nothing about what I plan to write will resemble what 'Sic Luceat Lux' means in Johnny Depp's movie,
" The Ninth Gate "
So before all of you have a stroke over nothing, I urge a sense of calm.
- thanks
A title is exactly that. A title. IT doesn't mean anything until something else gives it meaning. As I originally said, nothing about what I plan to write will resemble what 'Sic Luceat Lux' means in Johnny Depp's movie,
" The Ninth Gate "
So before all of you have a stroke over nothing, I urge a sense of calm.
- thanks
tartan_skirt
New Member
Unless of couse it's in a language.
I believe you were the one getting slightly uppity, so don't be a hypocrite.
Notice my calm?
ValkyrieRaven88
New Member
My thoughts exactly, Tartan Skirt. And by the way, the book itself gives the title extra meaning, but the title has a meaning on it's own as well.
manuscriptx
New Member
Uppityness
A character trait shared by all here, not by me.
- thanks
A character trait shared by all here, not by me.
- thanks
RobertM
New Member
The Editing Process...yes. This is where authors are brought to reality. (lol)
I remember working on my first book. Four years or work. I thought it was perfect, I really did.
Sent it to a pro editor in England, expecting a few glitches and maybe some minor suggestions.
(insert BIG laugh here)
By the time he was finished with me, I had cut out two whole chapters, rewritten four others, and sliced another 12k words from the manuscript from elsewhere.
In the end, it was a much better book.
I remember working on my first book. Four years or work. I thought it was perfect, I really did.
Sent it to a pro editor in England, expecting a few glitches and maybe some minor suggestions.
(insert BIG laugh here)
By the time he was finished with me, I had cut out two whole chapters, rewritten four others, and sliced another 12k words from the manuscript from elsewhere.
In the end, it was a much better book.
manuscriptx
New Member
Not my cup of tea.
I'm an " all or nothing " deal kind of person myself.
Like movies, the director shapes the movie in the screenplay and scripting process, then after weeks or months of filming a guy no one has hardly seen before comes in and chops it all up ( Editor ) and is sometimes said as the reason some movies are blockbusters vs. movies that flop like cakes in the oven.
James Frey used that as an excuse even though he was the world's biggest faker plagiarist, saying his handlers wanted more spice to the book.
I won't allow anyone to toy with my work, you take as is, or not at all.
I'm an " all or nothing " deal kind of person myself.
Like movies, the director shapes the movie in the screenplay and scripting process, then after weeks or months of filming a guy no one has hardly seen before comes in and chops it all up ( Editor ) and is sometimes said as the reason some movies are blockbusters vs. movies that flop like cakes in the oven.
James Frey used that as an excuse even though he was the world's biggest faker plagiarist, saying his handlers wanted more spice to the book.
I won't allow anyone to toy with my work, you take as is, or not at all.
Stewart
Active Member
Thankfully, I'm in the not at all camp.
SevenWritez
New Member
Realize that as the author of your work, you have a natural third eye into the characters, who they are, and what they will become and/or do. An editor is an outsider who sees your work not as something from inside--as the author sees it--but from the outside, as just a reader. If you can't give up your manuscript to someone without getting fussy over the suggestions they offer you, then you're not going to be a great writer. You won't even qualify as mediocre.
Stephen King is one of the best reknown authors around, and he makes it plain and simple in most of his forewards that yes, without his editor his books would be much worse off. Talent is great, being able to use that talent is greater, but to be so wrapped up in your own ego as to think you are some sort of literary Demi-God will only come back to slap you in the face. Manuscript, you're not bad, but I doubt you're amazing. Your work on its own won't fly.
Stephen King is one of the best reknown authors around, and he makes it plain and simple in most of his forewards that yes, without his editor his books would be much worse off. Talent is great, being able to use that talent is greater, but to be so wrapped up in your own ego as to think you are some sort of literary Demi-God will only come back to slap you in the face. Manuscript, you're not bad, but I doubt you're amazing. Your work on its own won't fly.
manuscriptx
New Member
The concept of editing.
One of the reasons I found an interest in short-film video, was the fun I had in understanding and seeing how editing something worked in the final product.
So although I have my reservations about editors as people, I appreciate the concept.
As for writing, it's far more intimate a process. When I write, and read back, it all has to come together in the right way - so to speak - otherwise I'll never sign off on allowing any material I write to be published.
I work under the assumption that for my first book I'll treat it no different than making a movie, writing raw material for various chapters, and as far as the publisher goes, they can pick and choose what material I can cut out and what can go in. But I will never, I WILL NEVER rewrite or alter it's particular shape.
If people are going to swipe at me for knocking editors, you should talk about how good an editing job is done on books and movies that get bad reviews, makes little to no money and recieve high criticism or awards for worst material of all time.
Don't make your point by picking and choosing from what turns out to be good, great or gets high praise.
That's all too common a practice.
One of the reasons I found an interest in short-film video, was the fun I had in understanding and seeing how editing something worked in the final product.
So although I have my reservations about editors as people, I appreciate the concept.
As for writing, it's far more intimate a process. When I write, and read back, it all has to come together in the right way - so to speak - otherwise I'll never sign off on allowing any material I write to be published.
I work under the assumption that for my first book I'll treat it no different than making a movie, writing raw material for various chapters, and as far as the publisher goes, they can pick and choose what material I can cut out and what can go in. But I will never, I WILL NEVER rewrite or alter it's particular shape.
If people are going to swipe at me for knocking editors, you should talk about how good an editing job is done on books and movies that get bad reviews, makes little to no money and recieve high criticism or awards for worst material of all time.
Don't make your point by picking and choosing from what turns out to be good, great or gets high praise.
That's all too common a practice.
RobertM
New Member
manuscriptx says:
A good editor can put a second, fresh eye to a manuscript and turn it into something better. All writers need an editor, but they need one they can trust.
First-time novel authors often say something similar to the quote above. An editor is a necessary evil, sort of like the police...(lol)
When I first started writing, I always thought my work was perfect, which for any author is simply a mirage, because no matter how good you believe your manuscript is, it can always be polished and improved. A good editor will know how to do this without changing the basic nature of the story...unless parts of the story simply don't work.
I can speak from experience here, having editing a lot of books. My last editing project was taking the unabridged text of the classic novel 'Robinson Crusoe' and making it easier to read. No problems. Trust me...Defoe NEEDED an editor anyway, just like any novelist.
A good editor can put a second, fresh eye to a manuscript and turn it into something better. All writers need an editor, but they need one they can trust.
First-time novel authors often say something similar to the quote above. An editor is a necessary evil, sort of like the police...(lol)
When I first started writing, I always thought my work was perfect, which for any author is simply a mirage, because no matter how good you believe your manuscript is, it can always be polished and improved. A good editor will know how to do this without changing the basic nature of the story...unless parts of the story simply don't work.
I can speak from experience here, having editing a lot of books. My last editing project was taking the unabridged text of the classic novel 'Robinson Crusoe' and making it easier to read. No problems. Trust me...Defoe NEEDED an editor anyway, just like any novelist.
manuscriptx
New Member
Director's Cut.
Some movies are released under the sub-title " Director's Cut "
presuming that they cut it themself.
Same will have to be with me.
Ha, ha.
Some movies are released under the sub-title " Director's Cut "
presuming that they cut it themself.
Same will have to be with me.
Ha, ha.
RobertM
New Member
Manuscriptx says:
'Director's Cut' films are what comes after the editor has released the regular theatrical version...which is the one the majority of people will actually view.
Your attitude is an editor's nightmare. The first time you try that one (saying no changes allowed) on a pro book editor, they'll just drop you and move on to a writer they can actually work with. Remember: Most publishers receive FAR more submissions than they can actually publish. Good book editors are not out there to steal your ideas or 'change' your work to their own views. Their purpose is simple: They want to make sure your work is presented well and made into a marketable product, which is good for both the publisher and editor. If you are not willing to work within the system, it just gives them a reason to reject.
Every author going through a pro publisher gets edited. Micheal Crichton, Stephen King, you name an author...all of them work with book editors. The only ones who don't are those people who vanity publish or just upload any old manuscript to PA or iUniverse and try that route. Problem: No sales, or very few. Result: Your effort and hard work are wasted.
My suggestion is that you inform any publishing company of your no-edit policy WHEN you submit...so they can save both you and themselves a lot of time by rejecting your book right away.
Of course, you could always self-publish, but without the marketing resources of a publisher, your book will likely go nowhere, and most readers will be able to tell it wasn't properly edited, anyway.
I am going to recommend a book for you, and I'm not being facetious here. It's a book ANY author should have:
'The Idiot's Guide to Getting Published' by Jennifer Basye Sander and Sheree Bykovsky. This is a no-nonsense, blue-collar guide to the real world of books. It is now in its fifth or sixth edition, and for good reason. Sander has a NYC-based lit agency. Bykovsky is a 'book packager' with over 20 published books of her own. The foreword is written by crime writer Ann Rule. Listen to the girls...they know. You can find it at Amazon.
'Director's Cut' films are what comes after the editor has released the regular theatrical version...which is the one the majority of people will actually view.
Your attitude is an editor's nightmare. The first time you try that one (saying no changes allowed) on a pro book editor, they'll just drop you and move on to a writer they can actually work with. Remember: Most publishers receive FAR more submissions than they can actually publish. Good book editors are not out there to steal your ideas or 'change' your work to their own views. Their purpose is simple: They want to make sure your work is presented well and made into a marketable product, which is good for both the publisher and editor. If you are not willing to work within the system, it just gives them a reason to reject.
Every author going through a pro publisher gets edited. Micheal Crichton, Stephen King, you name an author...all of them work with book editors. The only ones who don't are those people who vanity publish or just upload any old manuscript to PA or iUniverse and try that route. Problem: No sales, or very few. Result: Your effort and hard work are wasted.
My suggestion is that you inform any publishing company of your no-edit policy WHEN you submit...so they can save both you and themselves a lot of time by rejecting your book right away.
Of course, you could always self-publish, but without the marketing resources of a publisher, your book will likely go nowhere, and most readers will be able to tell it wasn't properly edited, anyway.
I am going to recommend a book for you, and I'm not being facetious here. It's a book ANY author should have:
'The Idiot's Guide to Getting Published' by Jennifer Basye Sander and Sheree Bykovsky. This is a no-nonsense, blue-collar guide to the real world of books. It is now in its fifth or sixth edition, and for good reason. Sander has a NYC-based lit agency. Bykovsky is a 'book packager' with over 20 published books of her own. The foreword is written by crime writer Ann Rule. Listen to the girls...they know. You can find it at Amazon.
GreenKnight
New Member
Sigh... this whole thread strikes me as rather like a debate as to whether or not Robert Mugabe would accept the Nobel Peace Prize if offered it...
manuscriptx
New Member
Inflexibility.
As I said before, the responsibility for writing a whole host of text is my job. An editor's job is to pick and choose ( if necessary ) what sounds best with what.
I remember watching a documentary on film editing as well, and I don't remember any instance in which an editor asked the production crew to essentially film certain things differently, either to enhance or alter the shape of a given area.
That's no different than how I view my written work.
I will not re-write anything that takes away from the story from beginning to end, wether its my first novel or the latter three.
The 100 page novella I'm currently writing however, people can take it and chop it up into as many pieces as they want, it's not what I plan on considering as my first signature mark on the literature marketplace.
But should anyone wish to do that, it better be a worthwhile cause, otherwise I won't put my name next to it.
That's just the nature of who I am, individually.
As I said before, the responsibility for writing a whole host of text is my job. An editor's job is to pick and choose ( if necessary ) what sounds best with what.
I remember watching a documentary on film editing as well, and I don't remember any instance in which an editor asked the production crew to essentially film certain things differently, either to enhance or alter the shape of a given area.
That's no different than how I view my written work.
I will not re-write anything that takes away from the story from beginning to end, wether its my first novel or the latter three.
The 100 page novella I'm currently writing however, people can take it and chop it up into as many pieces as they want, it's not what I plan on considering as my first signature mark on the literature marketplace.
But should anyone wish to do that, it better be a worthwhile cause, otherwise I won't put my name next to it.
That's just the nature of who I am, individually.
manuscriptx
New Member
Novella 2007 - Progress Report
I haven't gotten very far - so far.
However I can tell you ( for those interested ), I'm working my way through what is the opening scene. I can tell you it's a gentle love story at the beginning, then a new location comes along not far after that ( probably 5/7 pages later ).
I'm proud of the way I shaped the dialouge between myself and a fictious woman. I doubt anyone's written it quite the way I am. When you read it, you'll agree.
( p.s. No, her name isn't Lenore )
I haven't gotten very far - so far.
However I can tell you ( for those interested ), I'm working my way through what is the opening scene. I can tell you it's a gentle love story at the beginning, then a new location comes along not far after that ( probably 5/7 pages later ).
I'm proud of the way I shaped the dialouge between myself and a fictious woman. I doubt anyone's written it quite the way I am. When you read it, you'll agree.
( p.s. No, her name isn't Lenore )
RobertM
New Member
We're getting closer to the truth here...(lol)
Manuscriptx says:
Comparing the publishing/marketing of a book to the film process is a bit like comparing apples to oranges. In film, the creation process is controlled mainly by the director, the screenwriter, and the producer. If it is a large production company, then the production company execs have a certain amount of control over content.
Film editors have been known to inform directors that a certain scene doesn't work, and that re-shooting would be better, but it's a different process from books. A book is mainly the creation of two entities, the author and a good editor. A book editor also has to get the project past the book company execs.
I mentioned Daniel Defoe as an example of how book eds came into being. In those days, authors just sent in their ms. and it was published in whatever form was submitted. When novel writing took off, editors came into being soon after. In Defoe's case, he often related events out of order, and did not credit (quote) dialogue. Reading his unabridged stuff is difficult.
Sounds like from your last post you have relented a bit. This is good. In reality, other authors have said what you say. However, when they get a nice advance, sign a contract and begin working with the publisher, most soon see the light.
Manuscriptx says:
Comparing the publishing/marketing of a book to the film process is a bit like comparing apples to oranges. In film, the creation process is controlled mainly by the director, the screenwriter, and the producer. If it is a large production company, then the production company execs have a certain amount of control over content.
Film editors have been known to inform directors that a certain scene doesn't work, and that re-shooting would be better, but it's a different process from books. A book is mainly the creation of two entities, the author and a good editor. A book editor also has to get the project past the book company execs.
I mentioned Daniel Defoe as an example of how book eds came into being. In those days, authors just sent in their ms. and it was published in whatever form was submitted. When novel writing took off, editors came into being soon after. In Defoe's case, he often related events out of order, and did not credit (quote) dialogue. Reading his unabridged stuff is difficult.
Sounds like from your last post you have relented a bit. This is good. In reality, other authors have said what you say. However, when they get a nice advance, sign a contract and begin working with the publisher, most soon see the light.