Are you afraid of terrorists striking where you live?

[Kenny Shovel]

Zolipara/Novella:

If we listed all the hypocrisies, from all countries, and all points of view regarding the ‘war on terror’, we’d fill up the message board.

With that target in mind, he's my starter for ten - The British Government constantly referencing Sadam Hussains repression of the Kurds whilst ignoring the rather embarrassing fact that Britain spent much of the 1920's doing exactly the same thing (use of airplanes to bomb and machine-gun civilians, and possibly the use of gas as well*).

* The jury still seems out on this last point

 

[Zolipara]

Zolipara/Novella:

If we listed all the hypocrisies, from all countries, and all points of view regarding the ‘war on terror’, we’d fill up the message board.

Yep most countries have their share. My post was only meant as a response Hollis claim that its easy to decide who is terrorists and whos not.

The point I was striving, unsuccessfully to make, is that the US uses such labels as "terrorist" when it is expedient;

Yep just as many/most other countries do, but USA is in the media focus at the moment with their "War on Terror".

 

[cFaniak]

Terrorists striking in Poland. Not really...

 

[Hollis]

Yep most countries have their share. My post was only meant as a response Hollis claim that its easy to decide who is terrorists and whos not.

And I still stand by what I said. I'm not justifying anything the government has done or hasn't done. All I'm saying is that acts of aggression and terrorism are not all that hard to define. Guess it depends on who defines it, though. I've heard many terrorists being called anything but, when it's evident they are.

No, this world isn't meant to be viewed in black & white, but sometimes the greys are not as grey as they seem.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[Kenny Shovel]

And I still stand by what I said. I'm not justifying anything the government has done or hasn't done. All I'm saying is that acts of aggression and terrorism are not all that hard to define. Guess it depends on who defines it, though. I've heard many terrorists being called anything but, when it's evident they are.

No, this world isn't meant to be viewed in black & white, but sometimes the greys are not as grey as they seem.

Just my humble opinion.

Hollis:
I appreciate your opinion, especially as you seem a bit on your own on this one.

In a sense I agree with you that it should be obvious that a certain kind of action should be regarded as terrorism, or to use a less contentious word – unacceptable. However in reality is it so easy a call to make, or do other factors come into play?
For example let’s look at the ANC’s biography of Nelson Mandela:

http://www.anc.org.za/people/mandela.html

where we find the following “Umkhonto we Sizwe (MK), the military wing of the ANC, was born the same year. Under his leadership it launched a campaign of sabotage against government and economic installations.”

Or to use Wikipedias description

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Mandela#Arrest_and_imprisonment

“He coordinated a sabotage campaign against military, government and civilian targets and made plans for possible guerrilla war if sabotage failed to end apartheid.”

So Nelson Mandela, terrorist or freedom fighter?

Or what about the fire-bombing of German and Japanese cities in WW2; terrorism, war-crime, legitimate target or getting the b***ards back?

 

[gallagher672003]

seriously, who decides who's a terrorist? is it just people who threaten you personally?

Thats a good point.One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter etc.Its a strange world where the victims of such attrocities go and bomb another country into the stone age despite there being no proof of that country actually being involved.
I cant see how the hunt for Osama Bin Laden is at all helped the Invasion of Iraq,especially now that the Allied forces are bogged down in trying to keep the peace there.I fear that there will be a bloodbath the moment the troops withdraw regardless of wether there is a free election before they do so.

 

[Hollis]

Hollis:
I appreciate your opinion, especially as you seem a bit on your own on this one.

LOL! Kenny, I discovered a long time ago, that at least in the online world, I am usually the lone ranger on issues. I don't think it's me trying to take the opposite view. I think I just tend to be far more conservative than most people I meet online. Especially the people holding the same interests I do!

And I do understand what you're saying, btw.

 

[bobbyburns]

I think that indicates human beings are in a state of mental insanity.

I fear that there will be a bloodbath the moment the troops withdraw regardless of wether there is a free election before they do so.

 

[Zolipara]

All I'm saying is that acts of aggression and terrorism are not all that hard to define. Guess it depends on who defines it, though. I've heard many terrorists being called anything but, when it's evident they are.

Just as many countries now are labeling political opponents as terrorists so that they can get away with putting them in jail or worse. Since 9/11 pretty much anything has been allowed in the name of "The war on Terror".

What is your definition of terrorism?

 

[gallagher672003]

I think that indicates human beings are in a state of mental insanity.

I agree.Self destruction is,it appears,to be our downfall.

 

[StillILearn]

I'm way more worried that many of us are so PREPARED to be terrorized that we'll happily throw our civil liberites to the wind at the drop of a hat. (Or of a word.)

In her latest book Ann Lamott references a man who thought the carpenter next door was hammering out the words "You really are a paranoid so-and-so" -- in Morse code!

 

[novella]

The fate of Patty Hearst is a wonderful example of the power of money and political connections when a terrorist wants to make new friends. She's invited to all the best parties. Makes a nice change from shooting up banks. If only Osama would come around and act like the nice little rich boy he really is.

http://www.newyorksocialdiary.com/list/108.php

 

[StillILearn]

I'm havling trouble deciphering what you meant in your last post, novella. Would you say it again (in simpler language) for me, please?

 

[jenn]

The fate of Patty Hearst is a wonderful example of the power of money and political connections when a terrorist wants to make new friends. She's invited to all the best parties. Makes a nice change from shooting up banks. If only Osama would come around and act like the nice little rich boy he really is.

http://www.newyorksocialdiary.com/list/108.php

that is interesting. we do live in a society that loves to make famous our villains and villify our celebrities(well a lot of them do it to themselves)

 

[novella]

I'm havling trouble deciphering what you meant in your last post, novella. Would you say it again (in simpler language) for me, please?

Patty Hearst, daughter of William Randolph Hearst, the very wealthy media mogul, joined the Simbianese Liberation Army (SLA), a group of terrorists. She was convicted after her arrest of acting on her own volition in terrorist acts such as armed robbery and murder. The SLA's goals were unclear, but they were basically a USA-based terrorist organization with some weird ideas about anarchy and power.

So Patty Hearst was caught on film fully participating in their antics, got convicted and did some time. Then she disappeared, went back to daddy's castle in California, and hid for 20 years while her family paid a lot of money into various political coffers. President Clinton granted her a full pardon during his presidency, and now Patty dearest is a social-set star who is welcome in all the best homes and has probably visited the White House. She donates buckets of money to worthy causes and is "fully rehabilitated." I imagine she has sat in on many a lovely dinner where the War on Terror is discussed in very strict and serious moral terms.

Had you heard this story before?


The aside about Osama is a reference to his extended family's seriously huge fortune, their very close relationship with the Bush dynasty over several generations, and their good standing in American society prior to naughty Osama going native in the desert.

 

[StillILearn]

You wrote "joined", novella. This is how I remember it:



"On February 4, 1974, Patty Hearst, heiress to the Hearst newspaper fortune, was abducted by the Symbionese Liberation Army (SLA) and held captive in a closet. After mental, physical, and sexual abuse, Patty joined the SLA and shocked the country when she was found robbing a bank on April 15."


Your comparison of Osama bin laden with Patty Hearst still puzzles me. Do you know something I don't know?

 

[novella]

You wrote "joined", novella. This is how I remember it:



"On February 4, 1974, Patty Hearst, heiress to the Hearst newspaper fortune, was abducted by the Symbionese Liberation Army (SLA) and held captive in a closet. After mental, physical, and sexual abuse, Patty joined the SLA and shocked the country when she was found robbing a bank on April 15."


Your comparison of Osama bin laden with Patty Hearst still puzzles me. Do you know something I don't know?

Patty was convicted of acts of terrorism. Whether she was 'brainwashed' or not is a matter of debate, just as whether the youngsters of Palestine or any other terrorist group that 'trains' seriously deprived children and adolescents are being 'brainwashed'. She was convicted in a fair and open trial. There's no question that she participated of her own volition. "Why" is a different question.

 

[StillILearn]

... just as whether the youngsters of Palestine or any other terrorist group that 'trains' seriously deprived children and adolescents are being 'brainwashed'...

I very much agree with all that you wrote in your above post, novella, particularly the part that I've highlighted. I have to add that I believe "brainwashing" to be shamelessly rampant, as well as worldwide, nowadays.

As I mentioned, I remember the whole SLA/Patty Hearst tragedy being played out on television back then, and I guess (in my heart) I still want to give everybody involved the benefit of the doubt. The entire disaster, from beginning to end, was horrific. Nobody in their right minds would have consciously chosen to participate in any of it.

 

[Crystal]

Apologize if those pictures make someone sick..

Another life..​

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Believe me, it wasn't easy for me to post them as well.

Moderators have the rights to remove or delete.

 

[K-Dawn]

I'm not worried as of right now.

Last week my school took the IOWA's (A test that all 4th, 8th, and 10th graders have to take). My teacher got a letter that we had to go down to the gym. He told us that it said we had to go down there because there was a terrorist attack on the Sheridan Hotel. Everyone was freaking out. They're soooo gullible! LOL
(my teacher jokes around like that all the time. That's why it's so funny that my class believed it.)