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Arthur Golden: Memoirs Of A Geisha

Gizmo, whaaaaaaaaaaaaat did u think ... ??!! your first para of reply made my laugh though. :D

nelle said:
I agree with you too Litany, about her vanity and her innocence. Its almost as if she goes though all these life changes but never really grows up I only have about 8 pages left (i'm at work so i can't finish it just yet, but I will tonight!). Don't give up Fluffy, I had a hard time with the book in the beginning. There is so much cruelty I couldn't stand it.
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nelle, you did great work to ignite my i curiosity about the book.Thank you for that. Plus, umm, nevermind.

and Litany, you dammit, where you have been. I missed you! :( a lot. only here, you are litany, not that super...
 
I just finished Memoirs of a Geisha by Arthur Golden, and am (once more) sad to say that the first 80%. was a good read, and the last 20% fell off a big cliff. Why is this such a common problem??? Certainly it would have been better if the author had said, at the 80% mark, that’s the end of the story. Instead, he shoehorns a radical plot twist into what had been a linear narrative, with little explanation of the deep implications for the protagonist, Sayuri, i.e., her betrayal of certain other characters and her own self-discovery. It’s as though Golden tired of her and decided to just work the plot, regardless of the implications to her character.

First, there is the question of the reliable narrator. The book is told retrospectively in the first person (fictional autobiography) by a woman who for the entire length of the book never seems capable of action, self-determination, or speaking her mind, and then we find at the end of the book she is running her own successful business in Manhattan (!), entertaining Japanese businessmen and living in the Waldorf Astoria. The transition from one to the other is never shown, it is just thrown in and the reader has to fill in the blanks, where this protected, repressed person formed in 1930s Kyoto decides in the 1960s that it would be a great idea to live in NYC and run a geisha-service teahouse. What? That incongruity alone is enough to make me lose faith in the entire narrative. Considering the retrospective voice, can’t this older woman living in NYC give it up a little more about how she thought and felt as a young person?

For the first 80% of the book, I was anticipating seeing the protagonist reveal herself to be a character whose story is worth telling, i.e., to reveal human weaknesses of lust and greed and vanity and assets such as intelligence and a capacity for love. Even accepting that the world of the geisha is one of surfaces and deception, one would hope that the inner life of Sayuri the geisha would be revealed. After all, it is her telling the story. Instead, Golden pays close attention to creating a Japanese aesthetic setting and spends much time explaining how the protagonist has “water” in her personality, implying that she will flow here and there as destiny allows. Fine, but then where’s the human interest? Are we inside the protagonist’s head or outside it? Is she so repressed that even she cannot understand her feelings of love, resentment, longing, or a need for independence?

There are characters who seem to harbor these feelings, but we are not privileged to know their thoughts, and instead we live through Sayuri, whose modesty and lack of self-knowledge are so deep that she will not even acknowledge her own thoughts or scheming or small cruelties.

Golden’s writing sustained me with its poetic line and a graceful pace. It’s a book worth reading, but it could have been a lot more. Japanese women have traditionally been trained to hide their true ambitions, to act younger than their age, and to work very hard to flirtatiously please the men around them. Only recently has that started to shift toward something more individualistic. In this case, those surface actions are more pronounced because of the geisha’s training, but unless one is fascinated with colorful surfaces and a capacity for self-delusion, the narrative may seem empty. What I wanted to see is the person behind that flirtatious, self-abnegating front, but there was no there there.




(There was a previous thread on this somewhere I think. Just thought it easier to start anew.)
 
Novella, yet again you've stated so very eloquently what I thought. Very spooky. (Are you sure you're not my east coast doppelganger?)

I agree wholeheartedly with your post except for the part about Golden's writing being poetic and graceful. After awhile, I found it redundant and tiresome.
 
This book sounds very interesting. I shall purchase a copy of it from Barnes and Noble tomorrow after-school. Thanks a lot for writing a very eloquent review, Novella! :)
 
Coincidentally, I just finished the book this morning. I agree with you. One of the things I like most about the book was that it wasn't the happy ending sort where everything works out perfectly in the end. Sayuri couldn't have her true love without deeply hurting her closest friend. It was so truthful and realistic, but then all of a sudden we have this confession by the Chairman, and everything's perfect. I was very disappointed.

I did like the book though, I thought it gave a very good idea of what WWII did to the class-distinct Japanese society. And Arthur Golden wrote from Sayuri's perspective very well, for the most part- she was feminine without being stereotypical.
 
ooooooh, bless you novella. i really really didn't like this book (when i read it for book club ;) ) and had a hard time articulating it. i ended up sounding like someone in grade 8 complaining about a girl i don't like in school ("ew, she's just so annoying, and did you see her hair?").

i think this is a novel that aspired to be capital-l Literature and ended up being fiction. the author obviously thinks he has something very important to say, and that he's saying it well. i found it rather trvial and boring, and not very well written.

also, the narrator makes a huge point of saying how freakin witty she is. however, this point is illustrated by two anecdotes when she mentions it, and then is never shown again. not only does this bug me in principle (saying something about a character instead of showing it) but this wit is never seen again. moreover, the narrator does very little of her own volition: she spends most of the novel reacting to her surroundings and being led along like a puppy dog by the other characters. it could be agrued that the women of this period, especially geisha, had very little free will, however her "mentor" (i can't rember the japanese word for it) seems to have a fair amount of freedom and exhibits a good deal of wit and intelligence.

i really think the author tried to pack to much into this novel. the author tried to show life before the war, during the war, the repurcussions of the war, and then wrap it all up nicely and tie a bow on it. i think it would have served its purpose fine as a historical romance: the author wove a very detailed portrait of life as a geisha in the time period, and i did enjoy the love story part of the novel (although the narrator really annoyed me in parts).

in my book club, i called this book "fluff". don't get me wrong, i enjoy a nice fluffy novel, if it's well-written ("bitten," some of the better detective fiction) but i think i'm downgrading "geisa" to "mediocre fluff." :rolleyes:

and also... did you see her hair? ;)
 
I started reading this book a few days back. I have read 200+ pages and I like it so far. Considering that this is my first book about Japan and its culture, its quite informative for me. I like the writing style too, gives necessary and sufficient information, doesnt probe deeper un-necessarily! Its disappointing to know that the last 20% is a let down, will read it anyway. :)
 
sanyuja,

You might have a different opinion of the end, which would be interesting to discuss. The book certainly received excellent reviews when it came out.

I am, I think, hyperaware of how novels' endings are written, because I know how difficult it is to end a story satisfactorily, that is, maintaining the tension and interest to the end without going off the rails. So it's something I'm especially critical about.

If you think about it, anyone can start a story, but how many can end it well?

I did like Memoirs of a Geisha a lot, with some reservations. We should discuss when you are done!
 
Even I get very disappointed if the ending of a book is not as good as its beginning. And as you mentioned in your another thread, if the ending is too obvious, even then its a let down.
I will finish this book and then I will let you know how I found it.
 
I wrote one too :D

Characters are not well developed.
Disappointing climax. It was forced on the characters.
Most of the characters behave totally differently in the end just to achieve the happy-ending! So much so that it seems implausible.
The transition of the meek, timid Chiyo to the popular, successful, confident Sayuri has not been given at all.

Good writing style. I especially liked the way author gives comparisons (I don't know whats the literary term for that).
My favourite of all:
...she was more terrified of fire than beer is of a thirsty old man.
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A quote from the book:
Grief is a most peculiar thing; we're so helpless in the face of it. It's like a window that will simply open of its own accord. The room grows cold, and we can do nothing but shiver. But it opens a little less each time, and a little less; and one day we wonder what has become of it.
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I liked the book more for the insight it gave into the geisha lifestyle. I enjoyed reading it.

IMO, Sayuri didn't want Nobu to become her danna because
1. If Nobu became her danna, she can never have any relationship with Chairman.
2. Nobu is ugly looking and physically disabled. I feel this is one of the reasons because she expresses her disgust the first time she meets Nobu and repeats it quite a number of times.

I think its more of reason 2. If it were reason 1, then she should have had problems when the General became her danna. Its very clear in one scene where Mameha comes to meet Mother to propose the General as Sayuri's danna and Sayuri calls Mameha her saviour who saved her from Nobu.
 
I had posted this another thread, reposting here.

Characters are not well developed.
Disappointing climax. It was forced on the characters.
Most of the characters behave totally differently in the end just to achieve the happy-ending! So much so that it seems implausible.
The transition of the meek, timid Chiyo to the popular, successful, confident Sayuri has not been given at all.

Good writing style. I especially liked the way author gives comparisons (I don't know whats the literary term for that).
My favourite of all:
...she was more terrified of fire than beer is of a thirsty old man.
Click to expand...

A quote from the book:
Grief is a most peculiar thing; we're so helpless in the face of it. It's like a window that will simply open of its own accord. The room grows cold, and we can do nothing but shiver. But it opens a little less each time, and a little less; and one day we wonder what has become of it.
Click to expand...

I liked the book more for the insight it gave into the geisha lifestyle. I enjoyed reading it.


It doesnt look like a true autobiography. Bcos Sayuri doesnt talk about her feelings at all. Its more like a narration of incidents. If Japanese women are traiend to hide their true emotions ( I cant figure out what the reason could be), then how can Sayuri be so explicit about her sexual experiences?

IMO, The novel had a few holes in it. Like, why doesnt Sayuri express anger over her parents for selling her to the okiya. She is sad that she is estranged from her parents, but she doesnt express hatred/anger towards them for selling her off. I found that a unbelievable.

Chairman instructs Mameha to take Sayuri into her custody and turn her into a geisha. When Mameha knew Chairman's affection for Sayuri, why did she still insist that Sayuri seduce Nobu? Was it only to get rid of Hatsumomo?

The transformation of a meek, timid village girl Chiyo to the confident Sayuri is not well captured.

Sayuri's relationship with Pumpkin. Pumpkin is shown as a stupid, unambitious girl. She turns into a cunning girl and conspires to take a revenge on Sayuri -- seems implausible. The author probably added this to help him achieve the happy-ending more easily.
 
Sanyuja,

It looks like we agree on many aspects of this book!

From what I understand, Arthur Golden wrote it from interviews with a real Kyoto geisha, and then the geisha wrote her how book, but it somehow wasn't considered as well written. It might be worth a look for me, though, because I was also curious about her "real" inner life, which Golden doesn't show beyond saying things like "she felt sad" "she felt jealous," which is pretty inadequate under the circumstances.

Thanks for your post. I might write more when I have time.
 
As an individual who studies Japanese history, I liked Memoirs of a Geisha because it was so well-researched. Golden nailed the idiosyncrasies of the geisha community.

Even if people do not care for the story itself, they should appreciate it for its educational impact. The geisha community is a closed society. It is not often that people are privileged to peek inside, even through a fictional medium.
 
memoirs of a geisha

i was thinking of reading it before watching the movie, but i read about it and i was wondering if it's all right for my age? or if it would be too difficult, etc? i'm only 14..what do you think?
 
If you can handle The Poisonwood Bible (which is what I see you're reading right now) you can handle this. Happy reading :)
 
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