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Ayn Rand: The Fountainhead
- Thread starter SFG75
- Start date
Hey SFG75, I don't know if you are still around here, but I finally got around to readng Atlas Shrugged. The print was so small that it took me about two weeks to finish it, but I found it to be one one of the most important books I've ever read. Just thought I would post my Facebook review of it here:
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I mostly read for entertainment, and, admittedly, I generally don't read anything that is relevant to real life - because that is what I'm trying to escape. But once in awhile, I will hit upon a story that will grab me by the sheer force of evident truth. And that is why I have stayed up too late too many nights at the expense of my eyesight reading Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand.
Written in 1957, Atlas Shrugged is more than just a story of businessmen fighting a socialistic government... It is the story of those who want to earn what they have and not be made to feel ashamed of it versus a culture that celebrates welfare, laziness, stupidity and guilt and shuns gumption. In short, it is the story a sharply divided United States of America in 2010.
The story focuses on the bright, beautiful Dagny Taggart, the woman behind a great transcontinental railroad, steel industrialist Hank Rearden and copper mine tycoon Francisco d'Anconia, as they struggle to run their businesses under government regulations that force them work against their principles and give alms to those who have no desire to support themselves.
Taggart, Rearden and d'Anconia are punished as they reject the government's attempts to take their businesses and redistribute their wealth to "looters," as the nation's economy rapidly disintegrates into a violent welfare state.
Meanwhile, one shameless man of principle vows to avenge the extraordinary brains who have been punished for their achievements. He will either restore America's glory or die trying, while everyone around him utters the hopeless phrase, "Who is John Galt?"
The events of this book are, word for word, what has been happening in the last few years of the Bush administration and in the Obama administration. Our way of life and our pride in our nation and our work are being destroyed by those who want to give it to hapless bums. Anyone who is at all concerned about what is happening to our country should read this book - because fiction has never been so true.
Christheblogger
New Member
Oh God, how can you people say these things without any comment from anyone else?
I really really hope you all went out and planted your crisis garden, now that people with pre-existing conditions can't be denied health insurance. It is sort of Armageddon, after all.
WE ALL NEED A CRISIS GARDEN NOW THAT POOR PEOPLE CAN AFFORD DOCTORS!!!
SFG75
Well-Known Member
Peder
Well-Known Member
Not eveything that can be said need be said, and so far that relaxed philosophy is keeping me out of serious brawls here. :innocent:
SFG75
Well-Known Member
chiangmaifalcon
New Member
many years ago my ex-wife read this book and she loved it and I tried to read it but could not get into it. I work at library tomorrow and if they have it I will try it again and see what fuss is about. I think maybe I saw movie long ago but don't tremember much about it except it was about an architect.
DarkRaven
New Member
The only positive thing I can say about Fountainhead, is that it's slightly easier to read than Atlas Shrugged. I know Rand didn't learn English as a first language, but who on earth taught her to write six page long expositions. Watching paint dry is more interesting...
From a philosophical perspective, yes, I can see the appeal, but given that I'm not American, and have slight socialist sympathies, it's not really my cup of tea. She had to make her villain a socialist, didn't she? Typical Rand.
From a philosophical perspective, yes, I can see the appeal, but given that I'm not American, and have slight socialist sympathies, it's not really my cup of tea. She had to make her villain a socialist, didn't she? Typical Rand.
DavidRM
New Member
That is true. =)
I read The Fountainhead a couple times in my 20's and early 30's. I even read Atlas Shrugged a couple times in the same period.
Philosophically, I'm changed quite a bit from the first time I read the books. And my reading tastes have changed too. When I tried to read Atlas Shrugged more recently (a year or so ago), I found I just couldn't get past the stiff density of the text.
The movie version of The Fountainhead, with Gary Cooper and Patricia Neal, suffers from wooden dialogue and a rather heavyhanded plot. It's a decent summary of the book, though, and shows off some of Frank Lloyd Wright's more impressive work.
-David
chiangmaifalcon
New Member
I got Fountainhead today from library. It is not kind of book I usually read but based on this forum I will try it. I believe I saw the movie years ago, but cannot remember much about it.
chiangmaifalcon
New Member
This Fountainhead book is too much. In the introduction from Ayn Rand, I would say this woman is mentally ill. I have never seen such egotism before. She has all these quotations, but they are mostly all from her. The only others are either from people who apparently are also geniuses because they agree with her. Or there are others from people like Nietsche who are idiots because they do not. She appears to be anti-religion mainly because she cannot accept the idea of any being in universe smarter than she is. Plus I get the idea that she would really like to be Hitler and exterminate everyone who is not her idea of the ideal man, such as the Roarke character, who is also a rapist, if this makes any sense. I do not think I will continue with this as I recently contracted food poisoning and I think I have suffered enough for one week.
SFG75
Well-Known Member
Thanks for your comments chiang. It is interesting that you mentioned Nietzsche. The Will to Power reminds me a lot of Rand in that echos a sense of brass tacks dealing with the world. I don't believe that Rand would have exterminated people, as much as she would have allowed the few to surge ahead at the expense of the many. her altruistic sense was virtually non-existant. If someone is drinking themselves to death or has a bad mental illness, I guess that she would've let them go down their respective paths towards destruction and not feel bad about having done anything about it. As for your comments on religion, I believe she would argue that it is "collectivist" and that it doesn't mean she is more intelligent, as it says that she just wants people to live their life based on reason and be free. I would argue that people who are intrinsically religious are free and have made their choice based on what is best for their life and that should be respected.
scribeswindow
New Member
We have a bit of a high-brow Book show here in Melbourne that recently read and talked about Atlas Shrugged. The people on the panel absolutely despised this book. I will admit to not having read either of these - and I'm starting to wonder if I ever shall, even though they have been on my long term TBR list for quite some time. I posted because Chiangmaifalcon echoed almost exactly what one of the panelists said! He even said he 'suffered' through this and he's a major editor and persona in our media here. Anyway, maybe I'll try and read Atlas so I can make up my own mind.......
SFG75
Well-Known Member
I don't know if I have shared this, but I will do so again. When I was in college, I went through a phase where I read a ton of weird stuff-Ayn Rand was definitely in that list. Of all of the books that I have read in public at a coffeehouse, only Ayn Rand inspired people to pull up a chair to my table and started talking with me about why they didn't like her philosophy. Seriously, try it some time and see what happens.
Her work does appeal to some libertarian minded Americans. Look at the antagonists in Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead. Who doesn't know someone who got a job or a promotion, but were dumber than a door knob? Who doesn't know someone who is incompetent and mediocre, only to see that person get the employee of the year award or who takes the credit for the work of others? In Atlas Shrugged, riders on a train all died because no one had the guts to stand up and make the right decision. How many people feel neutered at work and who wouldn't do likewise? I agree that her philosophy is extreme and that altruism is not acknowledged to be a good thing by her. At the same time, that isn't to say that there isn't an appeal if you know your fellow man.
Her work does appeal to some libertarian minded Americans. Look at the antagonists in Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead. Who doesn't know someone who got a job or a promotion, but were dumber than a door knob? Who doesn't know someone who is incompetent and mediocre, only to see that person get the employee of the year award or who takes the credit for the work of others? In Atlas Shrugged, riders on a train all died because no one had the guts to stand up and make the right decision. How many people feel neutered at work and who wouldn't do likewise? I agree that her philosophy is extreme and that altruism is not acknowledged to be a good thing by her. At the same time, that isn't to say that there isn't an appeal if you know your fellow man.
Hugh
Member
The copy of Fountainhead that I just finished says that it is the "centennial edition", and that struck me as odd knowing that the book could not have been written 100 years ago. Centennial edition in this instance refers to the birthdate of the author instead. It was also a new book in a used book store, something else that compelled me to pick it up. It has a tear out post card in the middle of the book for you to send to the Ayn Rand Institute for more information on the author.
The dialogue between characters is clunky, it's almost as if Ayn Rand was not properly socialized as a child and this is what imaginary conversations in her mind sounded like. It actually started getting annoying when she would start a character's dialogue with a colon right before the first sentence with, "He said: "START DIALOUGE HERE". Maybe she was trying to avoid the typical dialouge tags of "he said" or "she said" at the end of the sentence. Oftentimes a character would launch into a long and boring monologue that would go on for more than a page making the characters that much less believable. However, the testimony and summation by Howard Roark at the Cortlandt trial was an exception, she obviously put in a lot of time and thought into it. There seems to be a theme of architecture critics wielding power, almost as if they rule the world, I found this silly and again, it took away from the believability factor.
It was only a little over a year ago that I even started reading novels, my reading had been restricted to non-fiction up until then. Since then, I've read about 30 of them, most of them by best-selling contemporary authors. I have never hated a character more that Peter Keating in anything I have ever read. I literally threw this book down twice in disgust over Keating, when he tried to blackmail the old man from the office and the way he treated Catherine.
I'm rating this book four stars because of the theme of individualism. I see a lot of Howard Roark in myself, right down to working at back breaking menial labor in order to support myself when needed. However, Howard Roark eventually was able to make his living at his passion and art, something I've yet to do. This book served as an inspiration, I've pounded more words out of my word processor over the last few days than I have in the last couple of years.
I don't agree with Rand's philosophy on laissez faire capitalism, (nor do I agree with Marx's on socialism), but her ideas on individualism, (or objectivism, I'm not really sure how she separates the two yet, still reading up on her), are captivating. An individualist will always be attacked by the crowd. No matter what the instance, it could be Howard Roark's designs, or even a stock speculator who doesn't adhere to revered Wall Street proverbs and maxims, if you don't fit in with the conventional norms, you will be vilified.
There is point in this novel I would like to see discussed. I never really understood Toohey's plan to manipulate Stoddard into letting Roark design the temple, how was it that he knew Roark would design itin the way that he did? Maybe I missed it in the book, but it doesn't mention how Toohey knew it would be a short squat building instead of a soaring temple.
Atlas Shrugged is definitely on my TBR list.
The dialogue between characters is clunky, it's almost as if Ayn Rand was not properly socialized as a child and this is what imaginary conversations in her mind sounded like. It actually started getting annoying when she would start a character's dialogue with a colon right before the first sentence with, "He said: "START DIALOUGE HERE". Maybe she was trying to avoid the typical dialouge tags of "he said" or "she said" at the end of the sentence. Oftentimes a character would launch into a long and boring monologue that would go on for more than a page making the characters that much less believable. However, the testimony and summation by Howard Roark at the Cortlandt trial was an exception, she obviously put in a lot of time and thought into it. There seems to be a theme of architecture critics wielding power, almost as if they rule the world, I found this silly and again, it took away from the believability factor.
It was only a little over a year ago that I even started reading novels, my reading had been restricted to non-fiction up until then. Since then, I've read about 30 of them, most of them by best-selling contemporary authors. I have never hated a character more that Peter Keating in anything I have ever read. I literally threw this book down twice in disgust over Keating, when he tried to blackmail the old man from the office and the way he treated Catherine.
I'm rating this book four stars because of the theme of individualism. I see a lot of Howard Roark in myself, right down to working at back breaking menial labor in order to support myself when needed. However, Howard Roark eventually was able to make his living at his passion and art, something I've yet to do. This book served as an inspiration, I've pounded more words out of my word processor over the last few days than I have in the last couple of years.
I don't agree with Rand's philosophy on laissez faire capitalism, (nor do I agree with Marx's on socialism), but her ideas on individualism, (or objectivism, I'm not really sure how she separates the two yet, still reading up on her), are captivating. An individualist will always be attacked by the crowd. No matter what the instance, it could be Howard Roark's designs, or even a stock speculator who doesn't adhere to revered Wall Street proverbs and maxims, if you don't fit in with the conventional norms, you will be vilified.
There is point in this novel I would like to see discussed. I never really understood Toohey's plan to manipulate Stoddard into letting Roark design the temple, how was it that he knew Roark would design itin the way that he did? Maybe I missed it in the book, but it doesn't mention how Toohey knew it would be a short squat building instead of a soaring temple.
Atlas Shrugged is definitely on my TBR list.
SFG75
Well-Known Member
Hugh-Her writing is a bit clunky when it comes to the detailing of love scenes or intense emotion. She does a better job of writing about the protagonist's feelings and headache under the heel of an oppressive government, as opposed to when the lead character is getting it on. The stodgy and plodding account of emotion in her books doesn't do her philosophy well in the eyes of others. You don't want to raise your children like you are transferring funds, nor do you want to "connect" with your spouse or significant other as blandly as you would a negotiation over a loan.
Hugh
Member
This is from Wikipedia about Toohey's plot to get Roark to build the Stoddard Temple:
There's nothing in the book that I remember that would lead me to believe that Roark would design the temple short and squat, in fact there was nothing really specific at all about Roark's designs, just that they differed from traditonal designs. I guess I'll have to leave it at that.
BTW, started Atlas a couple of days ago. 1200 pages in a trade paperback!
There's nothing in the book that I remember that would lead me to believe that Roark would design the temple short and squat, in fact there was nothing really specific at all about Roark's designs, just that they differed from traditonal designs. I guess I'll have to leave it at that.
BTW, started Atlas a couple of days ago. 1200 pages in a trade paperback!