bobbyburns
New Member
and pain is not a feeling ... it's a thought.
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Best god damn avatar EVER
- Thread starter Wabbit
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bobbyburns
New Member
later skater.
Litany
Active Member
Not at all. All you two ever seem to manage are arguments in semantics. If you can't define what it is you're talking about you'll never get anywhere. There was once this chap whose claim was 'Science is making us Gods', an ambiguous statement and not terribly good grammar, but once I got him to throw in a few definitions we finally reached 'Cybernetics can create men of extreme beauty' and from then on it was a lot easier to take the p...I mean have a meaningful discussion.
Now seeing as to my mind, a 'feeling' is a 'thought' through any classical definition, I feel that if Bobby wants to state that the two are different it would be useful for him to tell us how and why this is so.
Now seeing as to my mind, a 'feeling' is a 'thought' through any classical definition, I feel that if Bobby wants to state that the two are different it would be useful for him to tell us how and why this is so.
bobbyburns
New Member
hi guys. I'm glad we're all able to talk as friends here, so let's explore litany's question together.
the easiest way I can explain the difference between thought and feeling is, thought is never in the present. when you start to think about an experience, it has already passed. in a sense, thought isn't even real ... but feelings are. feelings are what connect you consciously to the present. stop and observe it for yourself. you might be sitting in a quiet room, for example, looking out of a window at the grass on the lawn, yet somehow a disturbing thought will break through the silence, causing you fear and conflict, which lead to pain. it happens a thousand times a day. the only real pain is psychological. the mind always tries to reconcile the past, or what is known, with the future, what is unknown.
the easiest way I can explain the difference between thought and feeling is, thought is never in the present. when you start to think about an experience, it has already passed. in a sense, thought isn't even real ... but feelings are. feelings are what connect you consciously to the present. stop and observe it for yourself. you might be sitting in a quiet room, for example, looking out of a window at the grass on the lawn, yet somehow a disturbing thought will break through the silence, causing you fear and conflict, which lead to pain. it happens a thousand times a day. the only real pain is psychological. the mind always tries to reconcile the past, or what is known, with the future, what is unknown.
VTChEwbecca
kickbox
Martin said:I'm just gonna lie down for a sec, okay?
Cheers, Martin
Sounds like you really need that vacation, Martin.
Litany
Active Member
If you put your hand on something hot and get a burn, you will feel pain. this is not caused by active thought, fear, or conflict. There are nerve endings in your hand that are activated by extreme heat. They send an impulse up to your brain. Your brain says ouch and tells you hand to get moving. Now, while touching the heat source may occur in the past, the damage is still occuring. All the while you can feel that intense heat moving through your skin, you are being burnt and damaged. That's not in the past. Obviously, it takes a certain amount of time for the impulses to reach their destination, but really that's negligible. The pain is occuring at the time that the injury is received. a pain that is both real, based in the physiological not the psychological, and in the present not the past.
The pain is not based on thought, and nor is it a thought in and of itself. Nor is it purely in the mind. There is a real physiological basis for the pain. You have a physical injury, and you have a physiological reaction to said injury, i.e., an inflammatory reaction coupled with an immune response.
(Perhaps I should clarify, this is only addressing the part about the only true pain being psychological, I'll get round to saying the rest is bunkum later. But I'm at work now,and am limited in my skiving abilities.
)
The pain is not based on thought, and nor is it a thought in and of itself. Nor is it purely in the mind. There is a real physiological basis for the pain. You have a physical injury, and you have a physiological reaction to said injury, i.e., an inflammatory reaction coupled with an immune response.
(Perhaps I should clarify, this is only addressing the part about the only true pain being psychological, I'll get round to saying the rest is bunkum later. But I'm at work now,and am limited in my skiving abilities.
)bobbyburns
New Member
let me put it this way ... if you can conquer psychological pain, you can conquer physical pain.
does that make sense?
does that make sense?
bobbyburns
New Member
I'd say, more like the guys who set themselves on fire to protest wars.
bobbyburns
New Member
horrible to you maybe, but I can't see how it would've made any difference to them. they just sat there quietly.
Litany
Active Member
You're not supposed to conquer psychological pain. It's there for a reason. If you never felt grief when a person died then what reason would there be for you to care for your family? You wouldn't give a shit if they were dead or not, or if they were suffering. Might as well rape your own mother and shove your baby in a blender.
You wouldn't feel compassion. After all, you don't feel emotional pain so how you empathise with the pain of others? Might as well send a few million Jews to the gas chambers, it'll solve unemployment and free up some real estate.
And as for physical pain, well you said that that doesn't exist.
Which is nonsense. Surely you can see that? Physical pain also has a very important function. There are some people that block out the stimulus. But why? So they can do stupid things to themselves? Unless you think that setting fire to yourself is a smart career move? Physical pain hurts. That's the point. You know it hurts so you avoid situations that will cause you pain. And you appreciate that what hurts you can hurt others, and because you're capable of empathy on account of still feeling emotional pain, you don't inflict unwarranted pain on others.
You fight to 'conquer' either of these two responses and you lose part of your humanity. We already have people like this in the world, and the ones that aren't in prison are off killing and raping and torturing.
From other comments you made about misery not being real, I find it worrying that you should be so preoccupied with switching off emotions and physical reactions. They're a part of life. Misery and pain aren't nice, but they're bloody important, and if you'd rather switch them off than experience them then you aren't going to experience life to the full. Without the lows, you can't ever hope to appreciate the highs.
You wouldn't feel compassion. After all, you don't feel emotional pain so how you empathise with the pain of others? Might as well send a few million Jews to the gas chambers, it'll solve unemployment and free up some real estate.
And as for physical pain, well you said that that doesn't exist.
Which is nonsense. Surely you can see that? Physical pain also has a very important function. There are some people that block out the stimulus. But why? So they can do stupid things to themselves? Unless you think that setting fire to yourself is a smart career move? Physical pain hurts. That's the point. You know it hurts so you avoid situations that will cause you pain. And you appreciate that what hurts you can hurt others, and because you're capable of empathy on account of still feeling emotional pain, you don't inflict unwarranted pain on others.
You fight to 'conquer' either of these two responses and you lose part of your humanity. We already have people like this in the world, and the ones that aren't in prison are off killing and raping and torturing.
From other comments you made about misery not being real, I find it worrying that you should be so preoccupied with switching off emotions and physical reactions. They're a part of life. Misery and pain aren't nice, but they're bloody important, and if you'd rather switch them off than experience them then you aren't going to experience life to the full. Without the lows, you can't ever hope to appreciate the highs.
bobbyburns
New Member
I don't know if I'd rape my own mother, but I love her the same way that I love pizza. if it were possible to love her unselfishly, then I would. but unfortunately most people mistake love for ego-worship. people say they love god, but really they love themselves and they believe that, with the help of god, nothing bad will ever happen to them. our lives are empty, we don't know love. we know sensations, we know pleasure, we know desire, but there is no love. there is only fear and psychological pain. when there is fear there is no love. but sometimes we believe that we would sacrifice ourselves for another person, but we all know the mind has a breaking point under torture and agony. we're conditioned according to the pleasure/pain principle. we lean towards one and recoil from the other. but maybe there's a way to transcend (though I hate using that word) pleasure and pain if we observe them without running away? they're not something separate from you at all, when you realize that you might know what it is like to love.
bobbyburns
New Member
heh, I'm late for work now. we'll talk more later, ok?