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bobby and irene

Mr. Burns, how I have missed you!

That's a compelling thought for a Monday morning and I shall ponder it over my coffee.
 
So Mr. Burns, now that you've turned our little thread schizophrenic, where am I to talk to you? You know I'm not an "on-topic" kinda gal. On either thread it is inevitable that I will meander. I think I shall talk to you here, and limit myself to simply responding to the other thread.

But right now, it's a little too early for anything except a cup of tea and some Vivaldi.
 
Mr. Burns,

Watched "Bowling for Columbine" again last night (it was on Sundance Channel) -- still makes me want to move! Sure, Mr. Moore plays fast and loose with the facts in order to tell the story he wants to tell, but his essential thought in this film -- Americans are a people who live in fear and respond with violence -- strikes a chord with me.

Saturday night, I was out in front of Wal Mart selling Girl Scout Cookies and two things happened to support this notion:

1) My daughter asked me "Mommy, how come so many of these people just ignore us when we are being polite and following the rules? Why can't they even look at us and say 'No thank you'? "

2) As the evening was wrapping up, security began stopping a great number of people to check their receipts against what was in their shopping carts. From the exit, I was able to watch the proceedings. Security guy was white; every party that was stopped was non-white. No one who was stopped had taken anything from the store without paying.
 
I was thinking, on the other hand, you've got people who live in fear and respond with good deeds. it's no different. I see it all the time with my family. my dad wants us to have this close-knit relationship, but his want, his insecurity, is what keeps us apart. I don't seek that sort of thing out. I mean I could play along with it, but it would be like feeding him a box of doughnuts. it would make him feel good, but, in the end, it's not very healthy. something I said earlier comes to mind, that a person who runs into a burning building to save people is no different from someone who murders people with an axe, because it comes from pleasure/pain. I used the extreme example, for one, because it's true, and, secondly, to emphasize it. violence can be an ugly thing, but kindness can, too, when it comes from the wrong place.
 
bobbyburns said:
I was thinking, on the other hand, you've got people who live in fear and respond with good deeds. it's no different. I see it all the time with my family. my dad wants us to have this close-knit relationship, but his want, his insecurity, is what keeps us apart. I don't seek that sort of thing out. I mean I could play along with it, but it would be like feeding him a box of doughnuts. it would make him feel good, but, in the end, it's not very healthy. something I said earlier comes to mind, that a person who runs into a burning building to save people is no different from someone who murders people with an axe, because it comes from pleasure/pain. I used the extreme example, for one, because it's true, and, secondly, to emphasize it. violence can be an ugly thing, but kindness can, too, when it comes from the wrong place.
Click to expand...


Wow, bobby, what about kindness? Every gesture doesn't have to be a life lesson, does it? Kindness is when you act to benefit others despite some discomfort to yourself. It is possible that someone else's temporary, fleeting, misguided happiness is the best thing in their life.
 
If I could, yes, depending on the circumstances, their motivation, their frame of mind.

When my brother was a teenager he got very drunk and was very angry and aggrieved for a legitimate reason. He came at my aunt with a knife. She is a very kind, expansive person and handled it wonderfully, talking with him for hours. They've been very close since then. Of course, his main intention was not really to harm her, but to show how damaged he felt.

I like to think I could do something like she did.

On the other hand, I was attacked twice in NYC on the street at night. It was impersonal, not about me. I was nothing to them. Those people I would not help.
 
bobbyburns said:
which one of you should I trust?
Click to expand...

There's no contradiction there. Nothing necessitates that I be kind to everyone. Why should I?

The first statement is a definition. The second is what I felt under those circumstances. There are definitely people in this world I would not feel kindness toward, mostly due to their actions and attitudes.

Where do you see a contradiction?
 
So, Mr. Burns,

Did you see the thing on dragons on Animal Planet yesterday? You know how I am about television -- but dragons rock! My little one wants one. Hell! I want one! I could be like that chick in "Heavy Metal" riding around in skimpy leather outfits to a Leonard Bernstein soundtrack, going "Kill Bill" on the bad guys, and riding into the sunset on my pet dragon!
 
what you're describing isn't too different from the way most christians feel about homosexuals. you're perceiving people to be a threat. you mean nothing to them, so you discard them. that's not kindness, that's self-pity.

novella said:
Nothing necessitates that I be kind to everyone. Why should I? There are definitely people in this world I would not feel kindness toward, mostly due to their actions and attitudes.
Click to expand...
 
bobbyburns said:
what you're describing isn't too different from the way most christians feel about homosexuals. you're perceiving people to be a threat. you mean nothing to them, so you discard them. that's not kindness, that's self-pity.
Click to expand...

What? I don't think you've been paying attention.

Scene one: me walking back to my apartment on East 19th Street, alone. One o'clock in the morning. Two guys come up behind me, one grabs me around the neck, pulls my head back fast. I start to fall. The other pushes me down onto the sidewalk. I think they're going to drag me into a doorway to rape me. Instead they are trying to get my bag off, which is around my shoulder and head. They are both kicking me in the stomach and head and back. I am lying on the sidewalk, shouting for help. They kick and kick. They keep telling me to shut the **** up, bitch. I wet myself in fear. I fight with them with my fists and feet. After a lot of this, lights go on, someone called the cops, someone opens a window. The two guys run away. They did not get my bag.

What would you have me do in the way of kindness in that situation? How can you characterize my response as self pity? Are you for real? What do you mean I 'discard' them?
 
I'm sorry I came off rude back there. I was going on twenty hours of no sleep, and was just about to crash. you know how your brain gets when it's tired. please excuse my carelessness.
 
what was the name of that dragon movie that came out a few years ago? it was one of the worst movies of all time, so my perception of dragons has been skewed.

Irene Wilde said:
So, Mr. Burns,

Did you see the thing on dragons on Animal Planet yesterday? You know how I am about television -- but dragons rock! My little one wants one. Hell! I want one! I could be like that chick in "Heavy Metal" riding around in skimpy leather outfits to a Leonard Bernstein soundtrack, going "Kill Bill" on the bad guys, and riding into the sunset on my pet dragon!
Click to expand...
 
You are probably thinking of that awful piece of garbage called "Reign of Fire." I can understand your trepidation.

Get some sleep. :)
 
bobbyburns said:
I'm sorry I came off rude back there. I was going on twenty hours of no sleep, and was just about to crash. you know how your brain gets when it's tired. please excuse my carelessness.
Click to expand...

Not a problem. Shit happens. You're just following an idea, without reference to the particular.

My point was that all I was to them was a target, an object. For me to respond as though there was a human relationship there makes no sense to me. I guess there are some people capable of another type of response, but I'm not one of them.

Do I hate them? No. That's just what they do. It would be like hating a bookcase that falls on top of you. The cops drove me around looking for them, but after a few blocks, I was just like, let it go. There's nothing for me in this.

I'm elaborating here just to illustrate that my capacity to respond to other people is necessarily contingent on context, but I don't demand any more than that from anyone else.
 
I am sorry for intruding but I am a little confused here.
bobbyburns, what do you mean by kindness can be ugly too if it comes from the wrong place? I am just not able to understand how kindness can be ugly/harmful (does ugly mean harmful in this case?) There is a thin line between kindness and pity, and for me pitying someone is bad. But, kindness?? How can kindess be bad in any scenario? My brain just stops working here! :confused:
 
Novella - I am sooo sorry that happened to you! I am glad you're ok! Without ones like you and bobby, we wouldn't have the huge words capering about like butterflies in an enclosure!
 
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