-
Welcome
to BookAndReader! We LOVE books and hope you'll join us in sharing your favorites and experiences along with your love of reading with our community. Registering for our site is free and easy, just CLICK HERE!
Already a member and forgot your password? Click here.
Bwa, ha, ha, ha, ha! I have you now!
- Thread starter Prolixic
- Start date
I find this one a difficult question to answer because I have often found that the most effective villain is one who is not neccessarily all bad - as with any good character there are many sides.
For example, Sauron's actions were for personal power, he was not always evil but had been corrupted by Morgoth and by ambition.
However, if you are looking for a simply evil 'baddie' then he, in LoTR, does come across as an evil, malevolent being - nothing more or less.
Saruman, on the other hand, is presented as a far more complex character and, IMO, a far more effective villain, as is Gollum. Perhaps it's that their evil deeds appear worse to me as I have a certain sympathy with their characters, and their evil hurts themselves as much as it does others.
Enough of my rambling! For pure evil the dragon Maur in Robin McKinley's 'The Hero and the Crown' has got to be one of the best I've ever come across. That feeling of 'something wrong', sort of oppressive until the source of the problem is realised and removed, penetrates the whole story.
And, of course, the wicked queen in Snow White! Does that count?
Oops - almost forgot Voldemort - 'he who cannot be named'!
For example, Sauron's actions were for personal power, he was not always evil but had been corrupted by Morgoth and by ambition.
However, if you are looking for a simply evil 'baddie' then he, in LoTR, does come across as an evil, malevolent being - nothing more or less.
Saruman, on the other hand, is presented as a far more complex character and, IMO, a far more effective villain, as is Gollum. Perhaps it's that their evil deeds appear worse to me as I have a certain sympathy with their characters, and their evil hurts themselves as much as it does others.
Enough of my rambling! For pure evil the dragon Maur in Robin McKinley's 'The Hero and the Crown' has got to be one of the best I've ever come across. That feeling of 'something wrong', sort of oppressive until the source of the problem is realised and removed, penetrates the whole story.
And, of course, the wicked queen in Snow White! Does that count?
Oops - almost forgot Voldemort - 'he who cannot be named'!
Deerskin, I agree about Saruman. With Sauron, you at least knew where he stood. He was evil, plain and simple. Not Sauruman, he snuck around and worked in behind the
good guys and then--pow! What a scumbag.
Then there's Gollum, who is a hero to some--not to me. He just sort of let circumstances sweep him along all the while trying manipulate things to the point where he got his Precious back. Sort of reminded me of someone with an drug addiction always letting their desire for the next fix decide what they were going to do next. Pitiful, as Bilbo decided.
I guess its hard to pick out an individual truly evil character. These days Its hard to find the type of book where there is a definite EVIL (Sheriff of Nottingham/Prince John combo) vs. a well defined GOOD (Robin Hood and his merry men) character.
My Picks:
I'd have to nominate humanity in Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert Heinlein. Thats a tough one to put down. The Bugs in Ender's Game are cast as evil all through the book, but--again--it seems that humanity takes the cake there too. (Of course you even see that in the Illiad where a community is trying to take over a good man's home, I.e.,
Odysseus.)
For pure insidious evil I'd say the bad machines in Forge of God by Greg Bear and the sequel are the worst. (You'll know what I mean if you read it.) Those guys will give you the creeping heebie-jeebies for sure.
Finally, for pure mindless evil The Red Star in the Dragonriders of Pern by Anne McCaffrey.
Is it possible to have a discussion about the bad guys without including the corresponding good guys too? Would that help with the question who is the most evil?
good guys and then--pow! What a scumbag.
Then there's Gollum, who is a hero to some--not to me. He just sort of let circumstances sweep him along all the while trying manipulate things to the point where he got his Precious back. Sort of reminded me of someone with an drug addiction always letting their desire for the next fix decide what they were going to do next. Pitiful, as Bilbo decided.
I guess its hard to pick out an individual truly evil character. These days Its hard to find the type of book where there is a definite EVIL (Sheriff of Nottingham/Prince John combo) vs. a well defined GOOD (Robin Hood and his merry men) character.
My Picks:
I'd have to nominate humanity in Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert Heinlein. Thats a tough one to put down. The Bugs in Ender's Game are cast as evil all through the book, but--again--it seems that humanity takes the cake there too. (Of course you even see that in the Illiad where a community is trying to take over a good man's home, I.e.,
Odysseus.)
For pure insidious evil I'd say the bad machines in Forge of God by Greg Bear and the sequel are the worst. (You'll know what I mean if you read it.) Those guys will give you the creeping heebie-jeebies for sure.
Finally, for pure mindless evil The Red Star in the Dragonriders of Pern by Anne McCaffrey.
Is it possible to have a discussion about the bad guys without including the corresponding good guys too? Would that help with the question who is the most evil?
Ben Holiday
New Member
I think Lord Asriel and Mrs. Coulter from the His Dark Materials trilogy by Philip Pullman are a couple of the more evil characters in fantasy. But for science fiction I'd have to say Peter Wiggin from the Enders Game series by Orson Scott Card you never knew what he was going to do.
Witchchild
New Member
Umm, did any of you read Anne Bishop's Trillogy? I think it was called the black jewels trillogy or some such... The first book was "Daughter of the Blood." There were two women in the trilogy that were as sadistic and brutal as you can imagine. The reveled and gloried in the destruction and torture of their victims... very dark series.
My name 'Witch Child' is one of the names of the heroine, who is also known as Janelle.
~Witch
My name 'Witch Child' is one of the names of the heroine, who is also known as Janelle.
~Witch
Mean a villain who is likeable as a character? Or really disgusting? As best villain in Lord of the Rings, I'd rather say Gollum - sorry for Sauron's fans ...
The problem with villains is that they are often more interesting when they are not only 'darkest'... but imaginative in their darkest ways of acting -- or failing in their plans.
The problem with villains is that they are often more interesting when they are not only 'darkest'... but imaginative in their darkest ways of acting -- or failing in their plans.
Oberon
New Member
Master Eremis
From Stephen R. Donaldson's "Morant's Need" series, Master Eremis fits the bill of arrogant and slimey villian very well. He has abolutely no redeeming qualities save for his speechcraft that allows him to play so many people off one another while he weaves their downfall. Backed by two very nasty lieutenants, Eremis provides the necessary foil for the hero and heroine, Geraden and Terisa.
The books are now available in handsome trade paperback-sized volumes: The Mirror of Her Dreams and A Man Rides Through.
O
From Stephen R. Donaldson's "Morant's Need" series, Master Eremis fits the bill of arrogant and slimey villian very well. He has abolutely no redeeming qualities save for his speechcraft that allows him to play so many people off one another while he weaves their downfall. Backed by two very nasty lieutenants, Eremis provides the necessary foil for the hero and heroine, Geraden and Terisa.
The books are now available in handsome trade paperback-sized volumes: The Mirror of Her Dreams and A Man Rides Through.
O
Ruzi
New Member
Not that I believe in "evil" per say, but this is still a tough question. I'm really not sure who I would consider the greatest villian, and right now I'm not exactly wearing my thinking cap, but the ones worthy of note that come to mind are the good ole' baddies. The troll under the bridge, the wicked stepmother, ill intent witches, and so on and so forth. The ones that made us think of evil when we were little. Now when I read a book, I don't look for good and evil, just the different reasons behind the characters, evil is what was under the bed when we were six.
M
member 737
Guest
Male: Heathcliff from "Wuthering Heights"
Female: Kate from "East of Eden"
Because...they are really, really bad.
Female: Kate from "East of Eden"
Because...they are really, really bad.
M
member 737
Guest
LOL...I haven't noticed I'm in sci/fi part...
Silly me!
Silly me!
avidreader55
kickbox
Thulsa Doom
nelle
New Member
The Dark One in Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series is pretty evil. And all of his servants (creepy creatures, the Forsaken, etc) are scary. When the main characters have to fight the evil servants I find myself squinting my eyes as if I could hide from the fight! Sometimes I have to put the book down for awhile before I come back to it.
Sometimes I have to put the book down for awhile before I come back to it.
kasuta
New Member
my pick
I have to say: Baron Vladimir Harkkonen!
I mean, the specific question was the most 'vile, evil, nasty' villain. Who personifies this more than this guy? He was fat, oozed pus, killed and tortured people for pure enjoyment, raped young boys, I could go on and on but I think that's enough.
I have to say: Baron Vladimir Harkkonen!
I mean, the specific question was the most 'vile, evil, nasty' villain. Who personifies this more than this guy? He was fat, oozed pus, killed and tortured people for pure enjoyment, raped young boys, I could go on and on but I think that's enough.
{Tigress}
kickbox
The Shadows from Babylon 5. Okay, so they were written in TV screenplay format before any books were ever published about them, but I still think they count.
Now as to why... because they were truly, solely dedicated to Chaos. They didn't have some underlying need for power or money or fame -- their only driving force was creating Chaos for Chaos' sake. Makes them tough to overcome.
Now as to why... because they were truly, solely dedicated to Chaos. They didn't have some underlying need for power or money or fame -- their only driving force was creating Chaos for Chaos' sake. Makes them tough to overcome.
Melisande - The Kushiel's Legacy Trilogy, Jacqueline Carey
Melisandre - A Song of Ice and Fire, George RR Martin
Pryates - Memory, Sorrow and Thorn, Tad Williams
Lady Oonagh - The Sevenwaters Trilogy, Juliet Marillier
Richard of Northwoods - The Sevenwaters Trilogy, Juliet Marillier
Mr Croup and Mr Vandemer - Neverwhere, Neil Gaiman
Mrs Charbuque - The Portrait of Mrs Charbuque, Jeffrey Ford
Mrs Coulter - His Dark Materials, Phillip Pullman
It - It, Stephen King
Mr Barlow - Salems Lot, Stephen King
Count Dracula - Dracula, Bram Stroker
The Madamiselle (sp?) - Alastair Reynolds Inhibator books
Prince Regal - The Farseer Trilogy, Robin Hobb
Melisandre - A Song of Ice and Fire, George RR Martin
Pryates - Memory, Sorrow and Thorn, Tad Williams
Lady Oonagh - The Sevenwaters Trilogy, Juliet Marillier
Richard of Northwoods - The Sevenwaters Trilogy, Juliet Marillier
Mr Croup and Mr Vandemer - Neverwhere, Neil Gaiman
Mrs Charbuque - The Portrait of Mrs Charbuque, Jeffrey Ford
Mrs Coulter - His Dark Materials, Phillip Pullman
It - It, Stephen King
Mr Barlow - Salems Lot, Stephen King
Count Dracula - Dracula, Bram Stroker
The Madamiselle (sp?) - Alastair Reynolds Inhibator books
Prince Regal - The Farseer Trilogy, Robin Hobb
