Comparison of Traditional Publishing to Print-on-Demand

[obarz]

>>any and all publishers. . .can lay hands on your work and see if it can make them some money and if you make some too thats incidental.<<

This is a shortsighted and highly biased view. Not everyone is a scoundrel.

>>and if you make some too thats incidental.<<

A print-on-demand publisher who ticks off his author is a fool. In this new relationship the author is truly the publisher's partner. If the author doesn't sell the book the publisher has nothing.

Stop trying to cause ALL publishers to appear to be money-grubbing profiteers!

 

[Prolixic]

No need to get PO'd

obarz opened this thread with:

The concept of an omniscient book editor who screens to discover and provide only the very best is a myth. My talk demonstrates the opposite--that books are chosen based only on their potential for sale in the greatest number.

Well, if the shoe fits, obarz, and you've cast mainstream publishers in that light in the presentation you mentioned above--all the while praising your particular method of making money. Don't get upset, the real fool--using your word, not mine--is the person who thinks that any publisher really has their best interest at heart. I suppose its possible, but if they do its with an eye to the bottom line. Deny it if you can.

The point I was trying to make was that writers need to be careful with their work whatever they are doing and whoever they ask to publish it. And if you don't advise your writers to do the same you're doing them a disservice.

obarz ended his initial post on this thread with:

I'd love to hear your comments and discuss any questions that may arise. Thanks.

Call me a barbarian if you want, but I thought that was an invitation to a candid discussion. Well, these are my comments. If you didn't want to read them you should have said something like, "I'd love to hear your comments, but please don't write anything I don't agree with because I don't think I can take the rejection."

Personally I am grateful for publishers, reading is one of my favorite pastimes and going to the bookstore sure beats trudging off to the monastary to have a scribe handwrite a copy of whatever I want to read! I think most people are happy with going to down to the bookstore and browsing throught the selections there and would rather be oblivious to the background workings of The Business.

 

[obarz]

There certainly are two sides to every coin and I will yield to your points. One is entitled to hold whatever beliefs that are necessary to permit personal comfort in arguable circumstances. It is not my purpose to change your mind. It is only to call attention to misinformation you present so that others may form their own opinion. I presume your stance to be the same but on the opposite side of this line in the sand.

>>And if you don't advise your writers to do the same you're doing them a disservice.<<

In the presentation I made before the IMC I did exactly that--to advise all authors to seek publication through traditional methods before seeking publication through POD.

>>the real fool. . .is the person who thinks that any publisher really has their best interest at heart. I suppose its possible, but if they do its with an eye to the bottom line. Deny it if you can. <<

A business has no greater master than the bottom line. One's eye must be to that bottom line to stay in business. However, the two concepts, author profits and publisher profits, need not be killing of each other. Just as one is entitled to a fair wage, a businessperson is entitled to a fair profit--an author is a businessperson. You are drawn to pointing to the inequities and to bad business practice while casting a shadow in saying that all publishers are alike. That's never been true. And I resent being put under that cloud.

In stepping back from the hard positions that each of us takes across that line in the sand, when I read what we are each saying, I don't think we're that far apart. What would it take for me to cause you to think better of publishers?

 

[Prolixic]

So you're yielding, but you're not? You can't have it both ways.

As you said, "business has no greater master than the bottom line." You have a business, POD pubishing. Traditional publishers are in a business too. Both of you are in the publishing business. You are a publisher. You've said it yourself. Both of you serve the bottom line in one fashion or another. Both of you have to walk between the profit margins, so, yes you are the same. You publish and sell other people's writing for a profit. Its not "All publishers are alike" but "POD publishers are still publishers" and the record shows that writers are more often burned by smaller publishing companies, I.e., POD and vanity publishers. If you're reading this do the research and you'll see.

It is not my purpose to change your mind. It is only to call attention to misinformation you present so that others may form their own opinion. I presume your stance to be the same but on the opposite side of this line in the sand.

Good tactic that, taking up the position that the other guy has taken up, specifically, the calling attention to misinformation. The difference is that you're walking the line and you know it, obarz. You're competing with traditional publishers for writers and trying to persuade whatever new writers there are here to come and use your POD house. All it takes is a read through this thread to see it. Just don't get your back up when someone calls you on it.

obarz wrote:

What would it take for me to cause you to think better of publishers?

Its easy to "step back" and say, "Well, you just don't like publishers, what can I do to help you?" and then discount what I've said, but that doesn't diminish the truth. Simply, that, you are more interested in promoting your method of publishing than in trying to help budding authors as you have often claimed here in the writers block and thats why I'm disagreeing with you like this. I can't believe that you would take the time to write up all these sunny posts on a readers website like this unless there was something in it for you. Free publicity maybe? Disguised as, "I'd love to help out all you new writers." Perhaps a recruiting effort?

Whatever the reason I can't say it really agrees with the idea behind this forum.

 

[Prolixic]

And with that I think we'll lock this discussion down. If you're a publisher and you really want to help out new budding writers, email me here Prolixic and we'll talk about it. Otherwise, go recruit somewhere else because you're not doing anyone any favors.

 

[Prolixic]

Sigh.

The thing that Mr. obarz seems to be forgetting is that the Writer's Block is for writers. If a publisher wants to help a writer that posts here they are welcome to do that. The problem is that until POD publishing proves that it can produces good books by good authors he can't help them do much other that irritate the people who already do. Don't take my word for it look at it objectively and call (or surf over to) any writing organization (or their web site) and they will tell you point blank: Yes POD is a new way to publish, yes it has promise, yes you will have to pay money up front if they think your book isn't good enough, yes if its good enough for them to publish its probably good enough to get a large publisher to publish. And if thats the case you might as well wait and get published by a traditional publisher because theres a long line of writers who got screwed to the wall because they didn't.

The reality of it is that POD and vanity publishing has a bad reputation for taking advantage of people who have been rejected by the traditional industry. Secondly the actual publishing industry is almost guaranteed to NOT deal with you if you go either of those routs to start with even if they are easier. So don't unless you're the martyr type and want to get rejected by every major publishing house. It may suck but thats the way it is.

As I said above, obarz, if you've got something to say email me at the above address. Taking pot shots at Prolixic because he stepped on your toes isn't nice. Remember all, try to stay on-topic and if a thread gets closed it should stay that way--don't open another one up on the same topic because you're upset. Be a good boy now obarz, realize that the thread is closed, and move on.