Crop Circles

[Jenem]

Nope. Sorry. Not true. Some people use a garden roller, others use chains, there are lots of different ways of making crops circles. Maybe the sites you're reading just don't like mentioning that little fact as it doesn't sit so well with their grand ideas.

Garden rollers and chains produce the same results as boards. The same damage to the crops. I needn't list every tool used by crop circle makers in order to make my point.

Already addressed this point. Farmers make money out of crop circles. How often do you visit random farmers' fields in the middle of the night? On occasions where people have camped out in fields no crop circles have appeared.

Not all do. Many farmers (at least, ones in Canada) don't wish to have their names released or have any media attention involved. If you visit the site I listed you will see instances of this. As for camping out in fields - if it IS aliens (which I am NOT saying that I believe conclusively) then they obviously don't want to be seen doing it so they would AVOID any areas where people are camped out waiting for them. And if it is natural phenomena, then you're not going to see anyone making them at all.

They would travel all this way without a means of communication? They saw this crop circle and thought 'Ooh, that's a good idea, we'll do what they just did?'. If you wanted to get a message across, and found that only a small subsection was paying attention while everyone else, including the people with power were laughing them off as loons, wouldn't you change your format? If you wanted to get your message across, no matter what it was, wouldn't you choose something a little bit more conclusive?

Where is the logic in an alien race desperately wanting to contact us that they would carry on with the same method for 30 years even though it's clearly not working? Wouldn't a message contained within a piece of obvious machinery be more likely to grab people's attention? Where is the logic in using a human gag as your medium for communication? And where is the logic in so badly wanting to communicate and be noticed and yet forever remaining hidden?

You're assuming they communicate the same way we do. You're also assuming they are aware of the fact that many people think of crop circle believers as loons.

Anyone who has looked into the history of ufo encounters on our planet is aware that there have been possible encounters for hundreds of years. If ours is not the first planet "they" have had contact with then perhaps their methods are established for a reason. Again, I am not saying I conclusively believe it is UFOs, only that I believe the possibility exists.

Go here to see some examples:

Historial encounters

If it's a natural phenomenon, why did they start appearing in the 70s? We had both crops and nature long before then. Why are they more complicated now than when they first began?

They have been around and documented since at least the 1920's. The Wright brothers invented and flew the first plane in 1903, but regular air travel didn't occur til sometime after that. It's feasible that crop circles existed before that time but were't discovered (or at least a pattern noticed) until flights overhead found them later.

What is the explanation given for the biophysical damage of the plants? For the electromagnetic readings found at sites afterward? Did you see the "ice circle" instances, where the ice has been melted in a circular pattern on ice too thin to stand on?

I have no NEED to believe in this grand idea of crop circles. I just can't dismiss things I can't explain with certainty. I actually AM a sceptic and a scientific thinker, which is why the evidence out there makes me think twice about things - no matter who calls me a loon for it.

 

[Wabbit]

^

What Jenem said

 

[Litany]

Garden rollers and chains produce the same results as boards. The same damage to the crops. I needn't list every tool used by crop circle makers in order to make my point.

You can either believe they're man-made or you don't. Clearly nothing I say is going to affect what you think in the slightest. But on this I will not back down. You CAN make crop circles without breaking stems. Read Round In Circles, I mentioned it before. It comes complete with instructions on how to make a crop circle without damaging the stalks.

I actually AM a sceptic and a scientific thinker, which is why the evidence out there makes me think twice about things - no matter who calls me a loon for it.

Then why look for more complicated explanations than necessary? That's not scientific thinking. The explanations for all these 'phenomena' are out there if you care to look for them. Read some James Randi. Read some Carl Sagan. Read the Csicop site. Don't believe all the nonsense you read on the pro-crop circle sites. They're not written by scientists, though certainly by people who claim to be scientists.

I'm not going to go into every single example you state and debunk it. The post would be too long. I can assure you I can debunk them, but you won't accept the explanations, so what's the point?

And that's the last I'm going to say on the subject. So you can happily carry on with your 'unexplained' phenomena to your heart's content.

 

[Jenem]

Then why look for more complicated explanations than necessary? That's not scientific thinking. The explanations for all these 'phenomena' are out there if you care to look for them. Read some James Randi. Read some Carl Sagan. Read the Csicop site. Don't believe all the nonsense you read on the pro-crop circle sites. They're not written by scientists, though certainly by people who claim to be scientists.

And that's the last I'm going to say on the subject. So you can happily carry on with your 'unexplained' phenomena to your heart's content.

No one is looking for more complicated explanations, there is just more to it than what I have heard "explained". A necessary explanation for one person, may not be good enough for the next.

Maybe I will believe what everyone else thinks, and while I'm at it start thinking the world is flat, and the sun revolves around the earth.

 

[Litany]

Maybe I will believe what everyone else thinks, and while I'm at it start thinking the world is flat, and the sun revolves around the earth.

Ok, I fibbed. But this is definitely my last post. Maybe.

This is yet again another example of people buying into a gigantic fib. No one thought the Earth was flat.

Look at some medieval art and tapestries. You'll see globes. Investigate the worls around you rather than buy into these age old myths.

http://www.bede.org.uk/flatearth.htm

 

[Jenem]

This is yet again another example of people buying into a gigantic fib. No one thought the Earth was flat.

Look at some medieval art and tapestries. You'll see globes. Investigate the worls around you rather than buy into these age old myths.

http://www.bede.org.uk/flatearth.htm

Ok, given, "flat earth" wasn't the best hypothetical to use. I haven't looked into that particular myth because it's never warranted my attention. But the idea behind my point still stands.

And while you're looking at medieval art and tapestries, perhaps you will notice the little saucers in so many of them.

I DO investigate the world. It's just obvious we have come to different conclusions.

 

[True@1stLight]

Still conclusions to be rational require valid premises.....not that I'm necessarily saying you don't have them somewhere...but I'm really getting tired of people always thinking they can cop out behind, "our opinions are just different." Opinions still require support!!

 

[Jenem]

wholeheartedly agree with you there, True, but we have both presented our cases in a somewhat basic fashion. i've outlined a few reasons for my stance, and (imo) they are valid. what more can be done? unless we want to make novels of posts

 

[True@1stLight]

wholeheartedly agree with you there, True, but we have both presented our cases in a somewhat basic fashion. i've outlined a few reasons for my stance, and (imo) <--- ) they are valid. what more can be done? unless we want to make novels of posts

Oh, I know....I wasn't so much referring to you two...just in general about arguments. In particular the overuse of the phrase, "my opinion." You, Bobby, Litany, Irene....we all talk and argue with basis for our conclusions....I just notice that here as in the real world people seem to use the argument stopper "opinion", which drives me up a wall.

And, although I open to things that are beyond our eyes on this current issue, just for the record I happen to agree with Litany. The argument seems to have already been made though so no need for repetition.

 

[Jenem]

what else do we have but our opinions, especially in this case? because so much around us can be debated as true or untrue, much of our conclusions are opinion. i don't usually use that word, though - admittedly. it irritates me as much as the word "nice" does. i certainly don't use "opinion" as an argument stopper! LOL (see above)

 

[Jenem]

hmmm - ok, well here's something i'm curious about now... do you guys believe in UFOs? not believing in crop circles (as created by anything other than man) does not necessarily imply you don't believe in UFOs. so now i'm wondering what you think about that. this isn't meant to start a big debate, i am just curious

 

[True@1stLight]

I'm not sure about UFO's.....but life somewhere else in the universe....certainly. If not based on the Drake equation alone....out of sheer hope

 

[Jenem]

i hear you there

 

[bobbyburns]

of course UFOs exist. who else is gonna unload all those crates of bigfoots?

 

[Jenna]

Curious thing about crop circles - they are finding that they are along leylines, just as places such as Stonehenge are. Seems a large number of holy sites were created on leylines. Also, why are we assuming that crop circles are done with an intent to converse with us? Perhaps they are only meant as directions to other flying entities? You know, "take a right at Earth and continue on another 15 light years to reach the pub". I fail to see how they can be trying to communicate with us when the circles can only be seen in their entirety from the air. I think whomever or whatever creates them could give a flying fig about us trying to interpret them.

Oh and I just saw a show that said Seattle, Washington is the only city in the world that has done a complete leyline study and graphed out the leylines. Weird Seattle at it again.

 

[True@1stLight]

Curious thing about crop circles - they are finding that they are along leylines, just as places such as Stonehenge are. Seems a large number of holy sites were created on leylines. Also, why are we assuming that crop circles are done with an intent to converse with us? Perhaps they are only meant as directions to other flying entities? You know, "take a right at Earth and continue on another 15 light years to reach the pub". I fail to see how they can be trying to communicate with us when the circles can only be seen in their entirety from the air. I think whomever or whatever creates them could give a flying fig about us trying to interpret them.

Oh and I just saw a show that said Seattle, Washington is the only city in the world that has done a complete leyline study and graphed out the leylines. Weird Seattle at it again.

Yes, something intelligent enough to travel through light years of space decided to put stamps on our planet pointing the direction to the monkey cages. And of course these aliens are very practical, because instead of simply noting the world this was by the insane amounts of water and atmosphere, they decide to use our corn fields, which of course last briefly before erased. Guess it's a possibility....

 

[Jenna]

Sarcasm is unbecoming and unappreciated. There can be other opinions than your own.

 

[novella]

UFOs

A UFO is only an unidentified flying object. Asking whether someone "believes" in them is silly.

Do you believe that occasionally an object is spotted in the sky that is not immediately recognizable? Of course. Do you believe that it HAS to be from another planet? Of course not. Silly, isn't it?

Novella

 

[True@1stLight]

Sarcasm is unbecoming and unappreciated. There can be other opinions than your own.

Quite true, I wasn't claiming to be right or wrong, that would be absurd about such a matter. I was just making a few observations, no harm intended.

I simply have had it in for them ever since they tried to take William Wallace away from us!

 

[True@1stLight]

A UFO is only an unidentified flying object. Asking whether someone "believes" in them is silly.

Do you believe that occasionally an object is spotted in the sky that is not immediately recognizable? Of course. Do you believe that it HAS to be from another planet? Of course not. Silly, isn't it?

Novella

I don't think it was a semantic issue being introduced by Jenem.
Although on the other hand, why is it we always assume aliens like flashing lights?! Anyone care to discuss the possibilities of galactic casinos?