Dan Brown: Angels And Demons

[Stewart]

Did you not read the Membership Agreement you signed regarding the section about advertising?

And go here for the forum's discussion on this waste of paper.

 

[sirmyk]

I was wondering how long it would take.

 

[WoundedThorns]

i still never finished da vinci code. i stopped reading it when i read that angels & demons was a story prior to it. and alas, i never read angels & demons yet.

 

[nera115]

i've just finished Angels and Demons and I didn't think it that bad. I thought it was really thrilling, and coudn't keep my eyes off it. But the end was a bit... dunno. Made me think a lot. But it's true that I haven't read The Da Vince Code so I can't really say if it repeats the argument or not.

 

[SFG75]

Like a lot of folks, I read The Da Vinci Code first, and I have just recently started Angles & Demons, I'm only on chapter 8 thus far. Was A&D re-released after DVC hit the top of the bookseller lists? Brown wrote a forward in A&D about how it was fun for him to write it and that he hoped that folks who enjoyed DVC would also enjoy A&D. I do agree with an earlier member who posted that the plots seemed aggravatingly formulaic. The paranoid, man on the run type of deal is a bit tiring, kind of like reading two Cussler books back to back. While the plots are similar, the church isn't portrayed as being an antagnist in A&D....though I have a lot more to read, so perhaps that will change, we'll see. So far, I'm enjoying it and it is holding my attention, which to me is a sign that it is somewhat of an interesting read. Part of my interest in this is that I do have a sub-interest in religion, not to mention *conspiracy theories* of various kinds and I have done some reading relating to the whole *new world order* deal. The American minister Pat Robertson has a book of the same title that he put out in '90, a good read to understand why people fear black helicopters and the U.N.

I'm a bit miffed about the whole "checking your brains at the door" characterization of his books. He does include some interesting details about word origins, not to mention coverage of scientific topics. In A&D for example, diving into the CERN research regarding the nucleus of atoms. The "No GUT no glory" shirt scene was very comical and I understood it the first time around. The start of the book is partially devoted to the interesitn history of the *illuminati* word/design carved into the man's chest. I flipped the book around a couple of times during my flight to Omaha to truly see if it was indeed true that you could ge the same image no matter how you looked at it, I looked around self-consciously, but the nearest person was busy devouring a Nora Roberts book.

 

[Sergo]

Like a lot of folks, I read The Da Vinci Code first, and I have just recently started Angles & Demons, I'm only on chapter 8 thus far. Was A&D re-released after DVC hit the top of the bookseller lists? Brown wrote a forward in A&D about how it was fun for him to write it and that he hoped that folks who enjoyed DVC would also enjoy A&D. I do agree with an earlier member who posted that the plots seemed aggravatingly formulaic. The paranoid, man on the run type of deal is a bit tiring, kind of like reading two Cussler books back to back. While the plots are similar, the church isn't portrayed as being an antagnist in A&D....though I have a lot more to read, so perhaps that will change, we'll see. So far, I'm enjoying it and it is holding my attention, which to me is a sign that it is somewhat of an interesting read. Part of my interest in this is that I do have a sub-interest in religion, not to mention *conspiracy theories* of various kinds and I have done some reading relating to the whole *new world order* deal. The American minister Pat Robertson has a book of the same title that he put out in '90, a good read to understand why people fear black helicopters and the U.N.

I'm a bit miffed about the whole "checking your brains at the door" characterization of his books. He does include some interesting details about word origins, not to mention coverage of scientific topics. In A&D for example, diving into the CERN research regarding the nucleus of atoms. The "No GUT no glory" shirt scene was very comical and I understood it the first time around. The start of the book is partially devoted to the interesitn history of the *illuminati* word/design carved into the man's chest. I flipped the book around a couple of times during my flight to Omaha to truly see if it was indeed true that you could ge the same image no matter how you looked at it, I looked around self-consciously, but the nearest person was busy devouring a Nora Roberts book.

OK. And it looked OK to you that some ancient science-loving artist devised anagramic brands to be used on human beings and bearing names of "the four elements" on them? And that "Illuminati Diamond" of unbelievable beauty, turning out to be just... Oh, sorry, you hadn't get to it, so I wouldn't spoil it for you... I do not think you have already read about the professor looking through all the signs on an immense Egyptian column, looking for something special, in under 10 minutes? Or going through unimaginable quantities of books, without any real clues, and finding what's needed in no time almost?
That's just small moments, but every person who tried to look for something in a book or somewhere would have problem to believe that could be accomplished so fast. That's why the mind should be "put on hold" - not to let those small moments (and Mr. Brown's books are full with these things) to kill the pleasure.
Oh, I think that what this world really needs - is ten or twelve American professors getting to this world's biggest problems: they would surely solve them in the nearest future and return to teaching students what's "sacred feminine" (pfui, I cannot but spit reading these words again after seemingly hundred times they were used in DVC, sorry, it must be stress of December overwork showing)...
As to liking... As I said, Mr. Brown is a master. That and our own imagination may create wonders.

 

[abecedarian]

OK. And it looked OK to you that some ancient science-loving artist devised anagramic brands to be used on human beings and bearing names of "the four elements" on them? And that "Illuminati Diamond" of unbelievable beauty, turning out to be just... Oh, sorry, you hadn't get to it, so I wouldn't spoil it for you... I do not think you have already read about the professor looking through all the signs on an immense Egyptian column, looking for something special, in under 10 minutes? Or going through unimaginable quantities of books, without any real clues, and finding what's needed in no time almost?
That's just small moments, but every person who tried to look for something in a book or somewhere would have problem to believe that could be accomplished so fast. That's why the mind should be "put on hold" - not to let those small moments (and Mr. Brown's books are full with these things) to kill the pleasure.
Oh, I think that what this world really needs - is ten or twelve American professors getting to this world's biggest problems: they would surely solve them in the nearest future and return to teaching students what's "sacred feminine" (pfui, I cannot but spit reading these words again after seemingly hundred times they were used in DVC, sorry, it must be stress of December overwork showing)...
As to liking... As I said, Mr. Brown is a master. That and our own imagination may create wonders.

I really understand what you're saying Sergo. Of course this is not the first time readers or viewers have been asked to "momentarily suspend reality" to enjoy a story. As I read Angles and Demons and The Davinci Code, I was reminded of the Indiana Jones movies. In order to enjoy Raiders of the Lost Ark, we had to agree to momentarily drop any scholarly notions of historical or scientific reality to swallow the idea that the Ark had power available to whoever could gain possession of the box..It was a fun movie, but not particularly strong on historical or scientific truth. I guess that may be the best way to deal with Dan Brown's novels too.

 

[Sergo]

I really understand what you're saying Sergo. Of course this is not the first time readers or viewers have been asked to "momentarily suspend reality" to enjoy a story. As I read Angles and Demons and The Davinci Code, I was reminded of the Indiana Jones movies. In order to enjoy Raiders of the Lost Ark, we had to agree to momentarily drop any scholarly notions of historical or scientific reality to swallow the idea that the Ark had power available to whoever could gain possession of the box..It was a fun movie, but not particularly strong on historical or scientific truth. I guess that may be the best way to deal with Dan Brown's novels too.

Yes. Maybe it is my mistake that I take it as natural for a film to fly much higher over the grounds of reality than it is allowed for a book...
But on the back cover of every Mr. Brown's book I read about how high-IQ, how wise, how scientific his books were... And with all my respect for those who likes DVC, A&D etc., I have to say that Mr. Brown's books are interesting and intriguing, but full of mistakes, mis-conceptions and are very far from being hi-IQ, scientific or else. It doesn't mean the books are bad books: I liked them, and people like them, but I am surprised how come they could be world bestsellers... We have dozens if not hundreds like those, maybe not with so astonishing ideas in them, but what the difference, if the ideas are wrong...

 

[SFG75]

Oh yes, I was more than aware of the criticism of the accuracy in the DVC, and that is part of what all the buzz is about. I've read through previous threads about how even settings in England were incorrect and more than one site is devoted to debunking anything and everything contained in the DVC. I am somewhat amused at all of the animosity that this book has triggered from people and institutions who take offense at it, even holding a mock trial of sorts to highlight these things(a bit defensive about their history aren't they? )

I do agree that it's odd to see Dan Brown's books fly off of the shelves and attract such a wide, devoted following. I enjoy popular contemporary writers myself, but I'm finding forums where people are saying that DVC is the greatest book they know. I mean hey!, I like Cussler and Clancy, but I have never had an exerpience where I thought any of their books impacted my life to a big degree. I'll admit it-I enjoyed DVC and I(so far anyways) am liking A&D. I am under no illusion that his works are the best literary work to be written in recent years, or that DVC is even remotely accurate. With that being said, the plot and narrative of his works are no worse than your contemporary novel stories or movies that are of the fugitive type of action/conspiracy setting. For your run of the mill books, they are pretty good. As stated earlier, I do like conspiracy themed books(and no, I don't have a thing for black helicopters) and perhaps the story telling may be implausible at certain points, but if it was a dull and stultifying read, would any of his books have made it big?

 

[Sergo]

...and perhaps the story telling may be implausible at certain points, but if it was a dull and stultifying read, would any of his books have made it big?

You know, this is the biggest question that I am asking myself: what must be done in order to make a bestseller? It seems the answer is not as easy as one would have thought before Mr. Brown's hits.

As to Clancy - I think his books are much better. That's because I can see him investigating, caring about the readers seeing the whole fabrics of his stories, not patches stiched together with threads of different colors and sometimes stapled or glued together, as I would say about Mr. Brown's books. Though of course the latter is much better at "thrilling", if I understand the term properly...

Of course Clancy makes mistakes too - I have written about that in the Clancy's thread. But the scope is quite different from what we have with Mr. Brown.

BTW, you have not answered about ancient "illuminated" artist making brands for branding humans. Does it look plausible for you?

 

[SFG75]

It seems the answer is not as easy as one would have thought before Mr. Brown's hits.

I'd have to agree with you there.

As to Clancy - I think his books are much better. That's because I can see him investigating, caring about the readers seeing the whole fabrics of his stories, not patches stiched together with threads of different colors and sometimes stapled or glued together, as I would say about Mr. Brown's books.

The guy certainly does his homework, no doubt about that. I remember a Time or Newsweek article about him in the '80s. He was able to take tours at military bases and wrote about some tank or helicopter and the military brass cringed, as they realy didnt want to broadcast how the weapon in question performed. I wish I could remember, but memory is bad as you get older. I like Clancy as more than a few have tried to write like he does and have failed miserably. A good comparison would be me authoring a cookbook.

BTW, you have not answered about ancient "illuminated" artist making brands for branding humans. Does it look plausible for you?

Not in all likelihood, but there are folks out there who would do anything. Heck, isn't branding something that kids now-a-days are into? I wonder if people really wear the cilice-though I doubt folks would as the risk of infection would be pretty high given daily movements that would constantly keep the wounds open and prevent any healing attempts to protect the body from germs and bacteria.

 

[Sergo]

Not in all likelihood, but there are folks out there who would do anything. Heck, isn't branding something that kids now-a-days are into? I wonder if people really wear the cilice-though I doubt folks would as the risk of infection would be pretty high given daily movements that would constantly keep the wounds open and prevent any healing attempts to protect the body from germs and bacteria.

As to the cilice... Those "religious" fanatics could do anything. We have them living in the forest, sometimes dying of smaller illnesses, sometimes not teaching their children to read and write, etc. And people thoroughly brain-washed could do nearly anything, I think.
So this part looked OK to me... (That's interesting to investigate what different people like & dislike in the same books...)

But, telling the truth again, I liked reading. That's the Digital Fortress that came harder - as all that's said about the plots' likeliness etc. is true, to read three books by Mr. Brown in a row is a thing I would advise to nobody.

 

[SFG75]

After doing some online looking around, it turns out that the association between the cilice and Opus Dei is accurate. At least Brown got one thing right. According to wikipedia, it is named for the Roman province cilicia and was originally a goat-haired shirt worn by monks and wealthy men as a form of mortification of the flesh.

In regards to A&D, the whole discussion of anti-matter was an interesting read. I don't have the biggest interest in science, but I believe Brown portrays a good description of the concept, not to mention the mach-5 airplane that is alternatively powered. For someone who doesn't write with literary power, he does discuss some complex ideas, he certainly can't be criticized for being too simplistic.

 

[grey_oneKD]

Dan Brown - Angels and Demons

I think this book is PHENOMENAL. Ever since I read it in 8th grade, it's been my dream to go to Italy and walk through the art and history there. Having neither a job nor a passport, (nor the money to even get to an airport - stupid gas) my dream has had to wait.

anyone else share this passion??

 

[pristine-prices]

Angels & Demons from pristine-prices.com

Hi

I did not mind this book too greatly. I thought that the plot was intriguing, but the climax at the end fizzled to some disappointment. In my opinion, The Da Vinci Code was obvisouly the better book, but think that Angels done most of the ground work for Brown and built on that to produce a better novel - The Da Vinci Code.

They are currently filming this in to another film by Ron Howard in Europe.

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