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Dan Brown: The Da Vinci Code

booksblog.co.uk said:
as someone who does not exclusively read high brow literature I am looking forward to the next one.

I read Brown too; hardly exclusive. ;)

And I'm not a Brown basher per se - although I won't read any more of his stuff. I'm just one of those people who are amazed that a back catalogue of non successful novels can become the hottest thing on the bestseller lists after a piece of successful marketing.
 
Abulafia said:
I'm just one of those people who are amazed that a back catalogue of non successful novels can become the hottest thing on the bestseller lists after a piece of successful marketing.

I think what contributed to Brown's recent paperback success was mainly - his back catalogue was only 3 books, they're all medium length and easily readable, and people who liked DVC liked it so much they wanted to read everything else the guy wrote. I think a lot of people skipped Digital Fortress though - it's certainly the weakest, ironically it's the one I started on.

With enough marketing though you can sell ice to eskimos (as the offensive old saying goes). I mean, do you know anyone who actually read "Being Jordan"? :)
 
booksblog.co.uk said:
Do you know anyone who actually read "Being Jordan"? :)

I met one of my friends on Friday night and she'd brought along some of the books she'd bought for her upcoming holiday - Being Jordan was one of those books. I read a bit; terrible. The Gareth anecdote was funny though. ;)
 
I finished reading the Da Vinci Code a while ago and, since I really liked the book, I started reading Angels & Demons right after finishing the first one.
I'd have to say I liked Angels & Demons better. Somehow, there's more suspense in the book.
But I definitely like the symbolism Brown's got going on in both these books, whether it's true or not.
Since this symbolism-issue seems to be a hot topic, there are all sorts of books written in response to the Da Vinci code, trying to prove/disprove the statements made in the book (i.e. Da Vinci Code: fact or fiction). I might get one of these, since I'm sure it'll be interesting to get an in-depth explanation of it all.
 
If you want to read into it all further, try 'The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail' by Michael Baigent (among other authors). Some might say this is fiction in its own right, but it was an extremely controversial non-fiction book when first released. For a more scientific account (with heavy use of geometry etc), try The Tomb of God (not sure on authors for this one). This book generally pooh-poohs the theories put forward in THBATHG as unsubstantiated nonsense - although it is heavy going in places, the geometry and use of logic make you feel as though it is more 'real'. Beware of an anti-climatic feeling at the end.
 
magemanda said:
the theories put forward in THBATHG as unsubstantiated nonsense

They are. The book consists of here's the history and here's the conclusion we jumped to.

Note the use of "jumped to" and not "arrived at". ;)
 
magemanda said:
This book generally pooh-poohs the theories put forward in THBATHG as unsubstantiated nonsense
What so nonsensical does THBATHG say?
 
Maybe it isn't what it says that is nonsensical (depending on your point of view of the whole matter) but, like Abu says, the way that they instantly jumped to their conclusions. In the Tomb of God, everything is proved before they move on. Anyone who is familiar with Esoteric Geometics can see the path they have taken.
 
They make the last leap that The Tomb of God belongs to Jesus - however, ultimately that cannot be proved. Even if the location that they pinpointed was excavated and a body discovered within, you could not prove absolutely conclusively that it belonged to Jesus. You could date the remains, but that still wouldn't be fact. The whole issue with the Da Vinci Code and the various non-fiction books is that they can take all the steps they like, but can't give ultimate proof - it's like the eternal treasure hunt.

The steps that they do prove in The Tomb of God are done using the two parchments discovered in France, and the way that they link with various paintings (the geometry within them). They present the paintings within the book with the geometry drawn onto them, so that the layman can follow the process they used. Every step that they make is researched thoroughly before they move on. I believe the level of research they did. And to me (however gullible it makes me) the fact that they dismissed The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail as BS makes their book more credible.

Proof was probably the wrong word.

But for anyone who wants to investigate further into the facts behind The Da Vinci Code, there are shelves full of books.
 
Read it

OK I just finished this book, sorry to keep such an old thread alive! My thoughts, I agreed with a couple of the earlier posters in that I felt like a lot of the time I was being lectured to, or even worse, having knowledge thrown at me for no other reason than to say 'Look what I know!'. Unnecessary detail about monuments and such which only told me that Brown had gone to these certain places, notebook in hand and just basically written down whatever he could see. There's also way WAY too much detail in a certain scene at the end where a character is travelling across a large city--I think it was a poor attempt at creating suspense by drawing out something we knew was going to happen. Sorry for the vagueness but I don't know how to do the spoiler thing.

As for the plot, I just didn't think it was that great. I believe the reasons this book is so popular are: a) it challenges a belief that people want to see challenged and is therefore controversial; b) people who don't read a whole lot have been drawn into the controversy and don't realize that there are other, better books of this type out there. I have not read the Eco book yet but am going to check it out this week since it has received such rave reviews in this thread.

Personally, I get more excitement out of a Ludlum book. Yes, Ludlum's books are basically cookie-cutter plotlines, but he is able to inject more action and excitement, and he certainly has the 'shadowy omnipotent behind-the-scenes evil organization' thing down pat. His books are simpler, less-detailed and more action-oriented.

There are actually a number of books out debunking this one, I guess everyone looks for ways to cash in on this type of phenomenon. Brown has said he researched this book meticulously, but just in the brief time I had to skim one of these debunking books, it looks like he either a) didn't research very well or b) completely distorted things for the sake of plot.

That's just my 2 cents.
 
Lot'sa spoilers aho, kids ...

... so don't read on unless you've already read the book, yada, yada ...
kasuta said:
Brown has said he researched this book meticulously, but just in the brief time I had to skim one of these debunking books, it looks like he either a) didn't research very well or b) completely distorted things for the sake of plot.
Yes on both accounts (though the distortion bit may possibly be due to some other agenda).

Plenty of very religious people have pointed to the factual theological and religious-historical errors perpetrated by Brown, so I'll skip that. I'm not that religious, anyway, but I can certainly see how the neognostic-meets-US-wicca basis that Brown uses to wholly reinterpret Christian history can be offensive.

Also, I'll skip the errors Brown makes regarding Leonardo and his art. Suffice to say that if Brown actually had any concept of Italian Renaissance art, the book would have been called "The Leonardo Code". Not as catchy, admittedly, but correct.

Anyway, now that we're all in secular and non-art mode, let's examine why this rather shoddily researched piece of modern pulp writing doesn't rise above the average modern US thriller, and in fact falls somewhat below:

(1) Americocentrism: This book is clearly written by an American for American audiences. Preferably Americans who have never been to Europe, checked into European hotels, or come into contact with the French or British judiciary.

How about the bit about the US Embassy as some sort of safe haven for US citizens who've broken French laws? With some sort of personalized flight service for the happy offenders back to the New World? Every day? And this (fictional) preposterous arrangement then protested by a mere French police chief at ambassadorial level?

And what about Fache, a police officer from Paris, getting Kent Police to do his every bidding, brandishing guns and holding third-degree interrogations on British soil? Without any mention of, say, the local Chief Constable or indeed even the Home Secretary being involved? Fache completely running the show, as if British forces came under his jurisdiction ... oh, la la ...

And why is Fache referred to as captain, by the way? The proper French term would be Commissaire.

The answer to all this: US habits, customs and traditions, by a US writer, for a US audience. Fache operates versus British police as a fictional FBI Special Agent would operate against a local Sheriff's/Police department in normal US pulp thrillers. We've all read them. And the US police senior officers are captains and lieutenants, and guns are part of the culture ...

This very specific americocentrism becomes even more damaging to the book's general credibility as regards its more

(2) General anglocentrism, particularly in the linguistic/cryptographic area: All clues and leads are in the English language. Even when other languages - e.g. latin - are involved, English is always needed to make sense in the brownian universe. This even extends to essential "facts" such as the Mona Lisa = Amon L'Isa argument.

(Which becomes preposterous once examined, because:
(a) Leonardo never gave the title to his work
(b) the original title was in Italian, La Giaconda, and indeed the French title is La Joconde. There would be no reason for this alleged grandmaster of Priory of Sion (a phony claim, BTW, based on the Plantard hoax) to make a pun of his painting in English, a very small language at the time.)


The general gist of having an effectively anglophone couple solving mysteries in France with the help/opposition of people who all speak the English language fluently is partly solved by the author making the Neveu/Saunière/St Clair family Anglo-French to all extents and purposes, and by making French cops and Swiss bankers alike surprisingly bilingual. (Well, it is surprising to anyone who's ever lived in France, or gone through their school system.)

Of course, the bilingual part as far as the French go would make Agatha Christie or the people behind 'Allo 'Allo blush, basically tacking on kindergarten French to the required sentences. Fortunately this would not appear to be le suicide professionel for a thriller writer. Ah, the lucky Monsieur Brown ... :rolleyes:

One could go on. But I'm tempted to focus more specifically on less linguistic points and moan about

(3) The bad research done as regards France. The Hotel de Crillon, for example, is not one mile from the US embassy, but literally next door. Even if you want to drive all around the Place de la Concorde rather than walk a few steps, and venture onto the Avenue Gabriel or Rue St Florentin (do Langdon and Neveu want to go to the Embassy or the Consular Section? Does Brown actually know the difference?), it's no more than a third of a mile at most by car ...

(Oh, and BTW, when the French police actually want to find and arrest someone in a car, they shut down all the chokepoints in the capital rather than form a blockade at a specific point. Trust me!)

Would a "French police judiciaire cryptographer" (who probably would be working for DST or DCRG and not the Police Judiciaire if she was in the civilian field) really have done cryptographic studies in a foreign country (Royal Holloway, London), rather than, say, at Ecole Polytechnique? Cryptographers tend to be very highly vetted and studies abroad are not a merit. Not that Neveu is particularly accomplished, mind, but anyway ...

Well, that's a minor point. But some really big plot points hinge around some complete absurdities. For example the notion that the fictional Swiss bank in Paris actually would fall under Swiss banking secrecy laws, and not French national laws ... ouch!!! :eek:

(Would Brown have made the same bizarre mistake if the Depository Bank of Zurich had been located in New York or Los Angeles?)

In a similar vein,

(4) There's bad research regarding Britain. Brown doesn't seem to understand the intricacies of the British honours system, and Teabing gets an awful lot of leeway considering he's a mere knight in a country where Peers of the Realm quite routinely get sent to prison. Teabing (an anagram of Baigent as has already been mentioned on this forum) even flashes a knighthood ID of some sort (!) to get into a building. Hehe, ID cards in Britain, and regarding Honours as well ... :D :D He's a Royal Historian (which unlike Poet Laureate, Astronomer Royal etc isn't a real title). Silas gets away from armed British police (which in itself is unheard-of) with Aringarosa, and takes him to hospital with a gunshot wound and the hospital A&E people don't even call the police which they're required to do by law! Considering Silas has opened fire on British police officers, the Met would certainly not allow him or Arangosa to quietly slip away ...

(Incidentally, no British police officer would pull a gun on Teabing merely for trying to brush past Kent Police. He'd be handcuffed and taken to the station. Firearms would only be used if Teabing had threatened the officers with a gun himself, and in that case, he'd have been unceremoniously shot.)

Of course, theses particular plot points aren't much worse than the Laurel-and-Hardy part where Fache and his men in the Louvre drop everything they're doing to follow Neveu/Langdon (as they think) rather than, say, call for their numerous colleagues on the street to find and detain the fugitives first before leaving the Louvre ...

I could go on, but won't. The errors are too numerous to mention, and this from a pure thriller-writing point of view.

I think everybody's agreed that Brown isn't a new Eco, but heck, he's even making Ludlum and Deaver look positively brilliant.

I don't expect most thriller writers to get most, or indeed any facts right as far as regards the size and shape of Renaissance paintings, or regarding early Christian history, for example.

(Although Brown should have dropped his "Fact" intro in the book and on his webpages for this to apply in this specific case. By alleging that everything he writes is based on fact, when in fact, almost none of it is, he's opening himself up to totally different scrutiny than that normally accorded writers of fiction. His bad.)

I do expect writers to get simple facts such as European banking secrecy laws or British police jurisdiction correct, as well as the geography of the landmarks of the main location, Paris. Heaven forbid that a French - or British - writer wrote a thriller set in the USA, where all the details where similarly wrong ...

All these simple points are what distinguishes really bad thrillers from reasonable ones, all other things being equal. The Devil's in the details. ;)

That said, grudging respect to Dan Brown for finding the proverbial goose that lays the golden egg. :rolleyes:
 
Dan Brown

Forget all the bad research, his books are just plain lame! I don't understand all the remarks about Americanization, etc. I don't pitch a bitch when I read a book from Great Britian and y'all "misspell" words. Nor do I get a knot in my drawers when I have to get my English/French or English/Spanish books and figure out words. I just take it as part of the reading experience. When I read Ann Coulter's books, I know I had better keep the dictionary handy because she uses a butt-load of words that I don't know, but I look on it as an adventure and then set out to include them in my spoken [and sometimes, written] vocabulary.
"If you can read this, thank a teacher!"
 
midnightemptres said:
I don't understand all the remarks about Americanization, etc. I don't pitch a bitch when I read a book from Great Britian and y'all "misspell" words.
No, what I mean is that the thriller/caper part of the book is built on an American weltanschaung, and sadly (*) falls apart very quickly if subjected to real-world criteria, e.g. how law enforcement cooperation in Europe really takes place or what the US Embassy's role really is as regards its citizens if arrested in France or other foreign country.

Two further examples:

- France is described by Brown as being Christian by "birthright" (page 25) when the opposite in fact is true. France is probably the most secular state on earth, and certainly in the Western world. Religious symbols are not worn by secular officers of the state, such as Fache, for example. The United States however, is widely regarded as one of the most religious nations on earth. So whereas I doubt many people would raise their eyebrows at, say, an FBI Director wearing a crux gemmata, in France it would probably lead to disciplinary procedures and a stalled career.

- The Hieros Gamos act as witnessed by Sophie is remarkably 'soft', 'faithful' and 'decent' compared to real descriptions of similar acts in pagan fertility cults. Brown cites the Isis cult at several points, but if this cult really had been the basis for Brown's fictional POS gathering, then Sophie would almost certainly have been part of her grandfather's rites. Of course, such details would create a scandal of a different sort to the rumpus that the Da Vinci Code has stirred up, and curtail all attempts at bestsellerdom.

All these are additional examples of americocentrism of the book to the ones I mentioned in my first post. The anglocentrism angle is more linguistic in nature, and more fundamentally flawed as regards Browns theological and historical musings. The erroneous "Mona Lisa/Amon L'Isa code" is an example of this.

I want to avoid getting to deep into Brown's theological and historical errors (because this is a book forum and not a historical or theological forum), but suffice to add that Godefroi de Bouillon never was a "French king", nor did he take the title of King of Jerusalem.

I much prefer to concetrate on silly, easily verifiable and mundane errors of fact, such as the fact that IM Pei's Pyramid at Louvre is built of 673 glass panes, not 666 ...

Although it shouldn't be necessary, I will point out that I'm a great fan of James Ellroy, the early Patricia Cornwells and the Harry Bosch series (apart from the very latest one) from Michael Connelly's body of work. In short, I'm a great fan of contemporary US fiction.

I'm not critical of the Da Vinci Code because Dan Brown is American! I'm critical because he's had the effrontery to do sloppy research and write a very mediocre thriller, yet allow himself to be presented as a cross between the early Frederick Forsyth and Umberto Eco. Since he's been given far too easy a ride by far too many literary reviewers, I felt it was time to examine the Emperor's new clothes a bit closer. I'd let Brown's errors pass if he wasn't so ruddy bombastic and pretentious about them. That does get my feathers ruffled. :mad:

(*) It's sad, because I actually enjoy a good caper. Not a Penny More, Not a Penny Less, by Jeffrey Archer is a good example of an enjoyable caper. There are very few writers who pull it off (including the later Jeffrey Archer himself) and I had hoped Brown's book would. It doesn't.
 
Spoilers

MORE SPOILERS HERE...I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO THE CODE THING



Yes thank you Mevlana for your posts. You definitely know far more about the specifics than I do--I actually did get an americo-centric feel from the book but was not able to nail down the specifics as you have. Even with me being a stupid American, I got a funny feeling from the French police being able to manipulate the Brits from across the channel. And yes, the whole entire police troupe rushing after the truck outside the Louvre was laughable.

I guess that in a more broad sense, the book just didn't draw me in. There didn't seem to be a lot of risk involved. Even though Silas was killing people I never really feared for our heroes. I also never got the sense that it would be such a big deal if they failed their task, i.e. nothing was really at risk. If they failed, the world would continue on in blissful ignorance of the 'truth'.

Oh and another thing I read about the factual errors in here, which I found interesting was about Opus Dei. I guess it's comprised only of laypeople, there are no priests. If I was a member of that organization I'd be a little raw over the treatment it got in the book and the complete misrepresentation. Maybe they have, I don't know.
 
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