Differences; N American & European sport teams (split from Ice Hockey)

[Kenny Shovel]

Genuine question, anyone want to try and explain the draft system to a British sports fan? In return I promise never to try and explain where Silly Point and Short fine leg are on a cricket pitch.

 

[Motokid]

In theory...the team with the worst record gets to pick first. This all gets confused and f'd up because teams can trade/sell/barter draft picks with other teams throughout the season. Because of the strike I'm not sure how they came up with the pick schedule, but looking at the first group of picks I'd say they've stuck with the "theory" part pretty well. Pittsburgh was definitely one of the worst teams in hockey the last time they took the ice.

I'm not sure what you are asking about Kenny.

 

[mehastings]

Genuine question, anyone want to try and explain the draft system to a British sports fan? In return I promise never to try and explain where Silly Point and Short fine leg are on a cricket pitch.

This is a really unique situation here. They're taking an entire league and putting the majority of the players out to "draft". They are using a "snake draft" which is supposed to allow for more equal distribution of players. This way one team doesn't get every good pick. I always like to try Wikipedia for stuff I don't know. I think they did a fairly good job with draft.

 

[Kenny Shovel]

I always like to try Wikipedia for stuff I don't know. I think they did a fairly good job with draft.

Thanks, I normally use Wikipedia too, I didn't think to check in this instance.

Motokid: I meant right back to basics such as what does the word draft mean in a North American sporting sense. I had a semi-understanding that it's to do with players coming from your university system, and that it's designed so that the teams with the worst record from the previous season get first pick, so as to try and even out the quality of squads accross a given league*. Anyway, I'll read the article and see what it actually means.

*It's so much easier here, a Russian Billionare buys your club and spends all his money hoovering up all the best players.

 

[Robert]

Thanks, I normally use Wikipedia too, I didn't think to check in this instance.

Motokid: I meant right back to basics such as what does the word draft mean in a North American sporting sense. I had a semi-understanding that it's to do with players coming from your university system, and that it's designed so that the teams with the worst record from the previous season get first pick, so as to try and even out the quality of squads accross a given league*. Anyway, I'll read the article and see what it actually means.

*It's so much easier here, a Russian Billionare buys your club and spends all his money hoovering up all the best players.

The draft is just a way to decide who has the legal rights to certain players. Once a player is drafted, the team that drafts him owns his rights (to play in the league) unless they decide to trade away his rights or release him by not signing him.

 

[Kenny Shovel]

Ok, I've read that and it seems pretty much what I thought it was.

So next dumb question. In European sport, soccer being the obvious example, this wouldn't work as the system is based on a more free-market approach; he who bids the most gets the player. So can I take it that over there the leagues themselves have more control over how their particular sport is run, or is this just the tradition that North American sport has evolved with?

 

[Puddleglum]

If we had a draft system in Football Oldham Athletic might actually get some decent players. Now that would be nice.

 

[Kenny Shovel]

The draft is just a way to decide who has the legal rights to certain players. Once a player is drafted, the team that drafts him owns his rights (to play in the league) unless they decide to trade away his rights or release him by not signing him.

Ok, interesting. I'd like to know how it works that the 'legal rights to a player' can be picked by draft. Initially these rights must surely rest with the player themselves, so how do they get to be handed out? Does the player have to sign a contract with the given league giving them control to allocate him to a team as they see fit?

 

[Motokid]

There is now a limit on what each team can spend for all it's players. I believe part of that agreement also limits what an first year draft pick can be paid as well.

No team's player payroll can exceed $39 Million dollars. Highest bidding does not come into play in the draft.

 

[Kenny Shovel]

There is now a limit on what each team can spend for all it's players. I believe part of that agreement also limits what an first year draft pick can be paid as well.

No team's player payroll can exceed $39 Million dollars. Highest bidding does not come into play in the draft.

Ok, something similar has been suggested for Soccer over here, but is generally regarded as being unworkable. As I suspect would be a draft system.
My basic question is how does this work in North America, is it because the various leagues have greater power over how their sport is run? Or mere tradition?
In England for example, about ten or so years back the top clubs set up their own league “The Premiership”, which gives them the rights, amongst other things, to negotiate TV rights deals. So over here the sports governing bodies don’t always have the power that American leagues seem to have. This isn’t always the case of course, in cricket the power is held centrally rather than with the clubs, but that is partly tradition and partly due to the main money spinner being the National side.

 

[Robert]

Ok, interesting. I'd like to know how it works that the 'legal rights to a player' can be picked by draft. Initially these rights must surely rest with the player themselves, so how do they get to be handed out? Does the player have to sign a contract with the given league giving them control to allocate him to a team as they see fit?

It's all in the draft order. Players really don't have a say if they wish to play in the league. Each team takes their turn drafting players, so no team can grab all the top talent.

 

[Kenny Shovel]

It's all in the draft order. Players really don't have a say if they wish to play in the league. Each team takes their turn drafting players, so no team can grab all the top talent.

What I'm trying to understand is how does this convention work? Why has it not been challanged, or has it?
Ok, a couple of years ago a Russian Billionaire called Roman Abramovich bought one of the top soccer clubs in England called Chelsea, since then he's spent a hell of a lot of money buying the best players he can.
Lets say he bought an American football club instead. Now would he be able to purchase players contracted to other teams? In soccer we call this a transfer. But let's also say that being an outsider he doesn't understand the draft system, he wants to be able to buy the best young collage players available. My question is what would stop him? Does the league have a stranglehold on how it's sport is run, one that cannot be challanged legally? Or is this a tradition that goes to the core of North American sport to such a degree that even the fans of his club would be against it?

 

[Robert]

It does't work that way here. If a player doesn't wish to play for a team, he can refuse to sign and hope the team is willing to trade him. If someone else wants the rights to a player, they have to deal with the team that owns their rights. They can offer money, draft picks, prospects, other players, or a combination of these things.

 

[Motokid]

Depending on the league, you have to remember the salary cap. This keeps it impossible for the team with the most money to have all the best players.

I think all professional sports leagues should have team salary caps.


In hockey there is a players union, and an owners union. They both have to agree upon the league rules, and structure.

 

[Robert]

Depending on the league, you have to remember the salary cap. This keeps it impossible for the team with the most money to have all the best players.

I think all professional sports leagues should have team salary caps.


In hockey there is a players union, and an owners union. They both have to agree upon the league rules, and structure.

True, unless of course they all sign for a fraction of their market value, which as we all know will never happen.

 

[Kenny Shovel]

It does't work that way here. If a player doesn't wish to play for a team, he can refuse to sign and hope the team is willing to trade him. If someone else wants the rights to a player, they have to deal with the team that owns their rights. They can offer money, draft picks, prospects, other players, or a combination of these things.

Ok, that helps me understand it a little better, thanks. But I'm still none the wiser as to how the system survives without being undermined.

I'll try and re-phrase the question. Lets say our Russian Billionaire wants a particular collage player, and he thinks to himself, why should I wait untill he is picked by another team and then have to pay them loads of money to get him, why not just go to him directly and offer him a better pay deal than the other clubs can afford.
I know the answer is that the draft system stops him from doing this, but how? Why has it never been challenged? Is it the legally binding rules of the league that this is how you select staff? Or just a tradition that everyone excepts as fair and equitable?
The reason I ask is that I cannot see how this system would work in Europe, so how does it survive in 'free market' North America.

 

[Robert]

It's all part of the CBA, the legal binding agreement between the owners/league and the players. There is a point when players become unrestricted free agents, but that isn't unlit later in their career.

 

[Puddleglum]

I know what you mean Kenny. I would've thought the best players would want to play for the best teams so that they can achieve more in their career. The draft system sounds fair but like you say Ican't see it working in The Premiership.

 

[Kenny Shovel]

Depending on the league, you have to remember the salary cap. This keeps it impossible for the team with the most money to have all the best players.

I think all professional sports leagues should have team salary caps.

I would agree with that, however most people seem to think that this wouldn't work in European soccer, partly because the big (rich) clubs have too much power. Try to impose rules like that on them and they'll just set up their own league.

In hockey there is a players union, and an owners union. They both have to agree upon the league rules, and structure.

That sounds a good system, however the problem here is not playerv club but rich clubs not always doing what is good for the sport.

Here the rich clubs are in a position where things like a draft could not really be imposed on them, my question is to how that convention works in North America, without being broken by some rich maverick.

Is the answer that North American sport was forward-thinking enough to put rules like this in place before power shifted to a few mega-rich clubs. Rules which perhaps stop a handful of clubs from getting to a position where they can dictate to the rest?

 

[Kenny Shovel]

It's all part of the CBA, the legal binding agreement between the owners/league and the players. There is a point when players become unrestricted free agents, but that isn't unlit later in their career.

Thats more what I was interested in. Is this 'CBA' signed between the play and the league before the draft? That would make sense.