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Disturbing trend.

Originally posted by Sentinel
Very intersting subject I must say.

Now, I can understand the hatred for unnecessary Multi-Volumes (must not be trilogies must they?) that lead the reader to believe there is only money to be gained. Then again, as was mentioned with LOTR: WHO decides the publishing format? Iwould think more often than not it'S the publisher that decides to hack a manuscript of 1000 Pages into thre 330 page-books to make more money. Which author who is so happy to be published at all will turn away from that?
Also the "endless" series such as Robert Jordans Wheel of time (IS it going to end???) or George RR Martin (is he going to finish that story or is he going to die before) make me angry as a consumer (haven't read either so I don't know whether I will like them).

Then: Where is the criteria of an UNNECESSARY multi-volume book? Is it a number of pages is it what you think makes for a boring read? What?

I for my part are still relatively new to reading Fantasy and thus probably have a lot of discoveris to make that you others have already made, but I have to admit, I do specifically search for multi-volume stories, simply because I like stories with "meat" on the basic bones of one of those seven plots.

If a story is entertaining and draws me in (like Otherland, Farseer Trilogy, Dragonbone Chair...) I don't mind waiting for the next volume (well, I DO mind because I am one impatient person ;)). If the story does not captivate me, I won't buy a second volume...

That said I don't mind or diss one volume stories. I just found that it's oftentimes a very disappointing read, when a big story is set up, makes you interested in the characters and dropps off leaving you unsatisfied after 300 pages.

Jan
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Thanks for the reply :)

I want to make something clear to you and everybody: I don't actually dislike multi volume stories. I loved "memory, sorrow and thorn" books by Tad Williams. I have read many multi volume stories that I do like :)

My point is, why does EVERY single fantasy published have to be multi volume???? That's just crazy. I want choice. Also, does every fantasy story have to be "the kingdom/world is in trouble so therefore object/army/person must save it? I just think fantasy is in a terrible market driven rut. Can't I buy a single volume fantasy book if I want??? There are people that publish single volume works and they seem, to me anyway, to be the ones publishing original works. People like Gene Wolf, Tanith Lee, C J Cheryh and Guy Garviel Kay.

:D

Regards
SillyWabbit
 
can someone clarify on the 7 basic plots? it sounds interesting

but i dont agree that breaking a plot to something as basic as good vs evil should be used to challenge its originality. good vs evil is hardly a plot its just a concept and there can be many variations made to that which arent superficial to the story.

i am not an expert on this matter but this is what i say. for example Harry Potter and LOTR can be both said to be good vs evil but i dont think anyone will doubt their originality or say that the plots are similiar and this is not just because of the presentation of the story but in essence itself they seem different

again.. this is debatable
 
Originally posted by piedro
can someone clarify on the 7 basic plots?
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  • man/woman vs. nature
  • man/woman vs. man
  • man/woman vs. the environment
  • man/woman vs. machines/technology
  • man/woman vs. the supernatural
  • man/woman vs. self
  • man/woman vs. god/religion

There are other schools of thought on the subject such as the 20 plots or the 36 plots.

Here's the 20 plot theme...

  • Quest
  • Adventure
  • Pursuit
  • Rescue
  • Escape
  • Revenge
  • The Riddle
  • Rivalry
  • Underdog
  • Temptation
  • Metamorphosis
  • Transformation
  • Maturation
  • Love
  • Forbidden Love
  • Sacrifice
  • Discovery
  • Wretched Excess
  • Ascension
  • Descension


And here's the 36 plot suggestions...

  • Supplication (in which the Supplicant must beg something from Power in authority)
  • Deliverance
  • Crime Pursued by Vengeance
  • Vengeance taken for kindred upon kindred
  • Pursuit
  • Disaster
  • Falling Prey to Cruelty of Misfortune
  • Revolt
  • Daring Enterprise
  • Abduction
  • The Enigma (temptation or a riddle)
  • Obtaining
  • Enmity of Kinsmen
  • Rivalry of Kinsmen
  • Murderous Adultery
  • Madness
  • Fatal Imprudence
  • Involuntary Crimes of Love (example: discovery that one has married one's mother, sister, etc.)
  • Slaying of a Kinsman Unrecognized
  • Self-Sacrificing for an Ideal
  • Self-Sacrifice for Kindred
  • All Sacrificed for Passion
  • Necessity of Sacrificing Loved Ones
  • Rivalry of Superior and Inferior
  • Adultery
  • Crimes of Love
  • Discovery of the Dishonor of a Loved One
  • Obstacles to Love
  • An Enemy Loved
  • Ambition
  • Conflict with a God
  • Mistaken Jealousy
  • Erroneous Judgement
  • Remorse
  • Recovery of a Lost One
  • Loss of Loved Ones

There's also a 37th that goes uncited: Mistaken Identity.
 
There's also the one plot school: I have a problem and I must resolve it!

And the three plot way of thinking:

  • happy ending
  • unhappy ending
  • literary story
 
If you're interesting in plot structure, check out The Writer's Journey but Christopher Vogler. He uses movies as examples but the ideas are the same.
 
AquaBlue said:
Boy I have to get that trilogy out of my closet, dust it off and read it already. I have books put away for later enjoyment and Tolkien's famous trilogy is one of them. I need to get to it pronto. :sad:
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Good luck AB! I'd read and loved fantasy for years and should have LOVED The Hobbit...but I had to force myself to slosh through the thing and can't bring myself to read the trilogy....milage varies greatly here!
 
I totally agree...most fantasy seems to be generic repeats of the sword and sorcery genre. It's so hard to find something original!

with that said, fantasy recommendations would be appreciated.
 
AquaBlue said:
Question: Is The Sword of Shannara Trilogy by Brooks any good?
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I only read the first one and I say NO. Others have said that the series gets better a few books in.
 
abecedarian said:
Good luck AB! I'd read and loved fantasy for years and should have LOVED The Hobbit...but I had to force myself to slosh through the thing and can't bring myself to read the trilogy....milage varies greatly here!
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But the Ringwraiths are much creepier in the book! ;) Yay for rereads though with catching things that I must have missed the first time or just forgotten. I'd reread ROTK if it wasn't for the guilt about that darn TBR pile...
 
I've just come from watching The Chronicles of Narnia: Prince Caspian, which got me thinking about this thread and the problem of high fantasy in general. I like C.S. Lewis' universe because he wasn't an obsessive compulsive writer who worked on world building his entire life, creating a multi-volume plodding epic. He wrote a self-contained book, then another, and another, and details just added up as he went on. Eventually he wrote seven novels regarding Narnia, but anyone can enjoy them separately.

This seems a far saner, more enjoyable approach to high fantasy. I know I don't need to read rubbish in invented languages and marvel at long descriptions of soldiers' armors.

I just want talking lions, walking trees, sword-wielding mice from my fantasy.
 
I understand where you're coming from, Wabbit. Recently, in an effort to escape having my reading choices prescribed by the local bookstore, I find myself seeking out relatively obscure books from specialty publishers. And more often than not, I'm extremely pleased with the result.
 
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