Ego & Editors

[interbac]

For the published amongst us - I'm not! - you must have had your work trawling though some editor's desk, and had subsequent revisions to the final submission before it was published. Are you happy with such alterations to your brain child, even though the ultimate decision to accept or reject the revisions probably lies with you? Or does it?

 

[Eugen]

For the published amongst us - I'm not! - you must have had your work trawling though some editor's desk, and had subsequent revisions to the final submission before it was published. Are you happy with such alterations to your brain child, even though the ultimate decision to accept or reject the revisions probably lies with you? Or does it?

I once had an agent, interbac, who sent me a neat package of my work, all nice and revised - with a different ending. Colourful it was too.
It broke this camel's back, and first click was delete and trash; Agent never knew what hit him. Needless to say, I am without Agent now, with only membership to a society of authors to review my contracts. That's ego for you.
On the other hand, I'm open to pointers and suggestions on plot flaws, typos, verbosity, verisimilitude, because one could get quite attached to their writing to lack objectivity.

 

[novella]

I've been on both sides of this process many many times. As an editor for 15 years (some of that time in acquisitions), I understood that as a writer a major part of my job (and ultimately success as a professional) is to learn to cooperate with the editing process.

Editing, whether fiction or nonfiction, is a mutual process, not a one-sided action to alter the writer's work. It is multi-staged and really requires the writer to participate and be open to discussion. Not every editorial change must be accepted, but it's a conversation about how to improve the work. A good, sensitive editor can improve one's work way beyond what a writer alone can do. As a writer, it is sometimes hard to open your mind to the process, but it can be the best thing for your professional development.

To think that your writing is fully formed and the best it can be when you decide you are "done" is very naive. Skilled editors don't just correct "mistakes", they bring years of experience to the medium and can help you to become a better writer.

BTW, I worked as an acquisitions editor for science and technology (artificial intelligence was my niche), fiction, and general-interest magazines publishing essays, interviews, poetry, etc. I worked as a copyeditor and developmental editor for years, as a freelance writer, and as a freelance editor. I'm also a published fiction writer and have had many nonfiction pieces published over 20 years.

Probably the worst situation for a writer is to be edited by a freelance editor with whom you have no chance of developing a relationship. The commitment on either side isn't deep enough to work the way it should.

It's important to remember that your editor is also your advocate. Your editor is on your side and wants you to succeed. They risk a lot sometimes for your success.

 

[Cathy C]

About the best that I can say is that if you are publishing your first novel and your initial edit letter isn't 15-20 pages, ask for another editor. Yeah, I know it seems like a lot, but often things that are inside your head never make it to the paper. While it might make perfect sense to you and to anyone you have involved in the writing process, often there are defects in the plot or the characters' motivations that will be caught by a skilled editor. If you're lucky, you'll also get one with a sense of humor! Here are a few real-life examples from our first edit letter with a NY publisher:

"Here is how I see Tony in most of the book: a very suave but ordinary-looking James Bond type. A trained assassin-for-hire. Secretive. Pleasant but dangerous. Mostly honest, but willing to bend the rules for a good reason, but it has to be *his* reason. He likes to have a plan and a back-up plan. He's a good judge of character and only gives information that is pertinent to who he's speaking to.

The other side of Tony you've presented is like Joe Pesci in My Cousin Vinny. Tough and introverted, but NOT a controlled, silent, snarky James Bond type. Which one is he? You guys have to choose. He can't be one sometimes, and another at other times. It's very out of character and pulls the reader out of the book."

Now, of course, this meant that we had to make MAJOR changes to character is certain points of the book because, ultimately, she was right. He had two different personalities.

"Does the man NEVER brush his teeth? I mean -- eeww!"

Of course, it never occurred to us, but she was right. Most of his day-to-day routines were off-stage.

"Right now, in one day:
Tony wakes up
Sue comes back
they decide to date
they eat breakfast
they go to Tony's house
they go to the bank
they go shopping
they fly to Vegas
they go to a bunch of casinos
they go to Leo's casino
they play there for a couple of hours
they have all of the altercations, Sue is kidnapped, etc.
they "escape" and confess their almost-love
it takes 14 hours to drive back to Tony's house

That's a DAMN full day! And they haven't eaten since breakfast!"

Haha! Again, it never occurred to us. Of course, the READER would spot it right away. This is why an editor is so important, because you're looking at it from the eyes of someone who has lived the lives of the characters for months or years! It takes fresh eyes to see the gaping plot holes.

Does that help any?

 

[Eugen]

BTW, I worked as an acquisitions editor for science and technology (artificial intelligence was my niche), fiction, and general-interest magazines publishing essays, interviews, poetry, etc. I worked as a copyeditor and developmental editor for years, as a freelance writer, and as a freelance editor. I'm also a published fiction writer and have had many nonfiction pieces published over 20 years.

Hey Novella, I'm working on crime fiction based in Scotland, surrounding a haunting Celtic mute. The protagonist, however, is a computer guru who shell scripts and is beginning a new life with an innovative project that he hopes to be a winner. Think you can eyeball a chapter? Think we can talk in camera? Nothing suss, plain shop!

 

[novella]

Eugen,
I replied off-board.
N.

 

[Eugen]

Interbac: There! Novella and Cathy have spoken. I have appraisers, who act as editors in the sense that they come with plenty of meaningful feedback. By the time my book goes to an editor in a publishing house, they have little to say. I'll give you an example of one of the feedback in a section where my character receives information about a close acquaintance's murder:

A knot hardens in my stomach. 'What happened?'
'What do you think happened if she's squeezed into a suitcase, thrown into the Thames? They pulled it out, a group of teenagers. A torso stuffed inside, beside it - a severed wrist, a waterproof clock ticking on it, its dial moist from shiny mould of her body liquid. It's all over the news; what do you read?'

Now when I wrote this, I thought it was great! gruesome! So imagine my face when on the margin came back my appraiser's angry scrawl:

'No! This is not how people of any decency would relate such information.'

 

[novella]

But imagine my face when on the margin came back my appraiser's angry scrawl:

'No! This is not how people of any decency would relate such information.'

Eugen,

You might want to cultivate a gentler, more constructive "appraiser." I prefer the Socratic method, i.e., questioning the author about character development, motive, and context until we reach an understanding of what would work. Ideally, the critique should ultimately be born from the author or it loses legitimacy. The editor is only the midwife of creation.

 

[Eugen]

Eugen,

You might want to cultivate a gentler, more constructive "appraiser." I prefer the Socratic method, i.e., questioning the author about character development, motive, and context until we reach an understanding of what would work. Ideally, the critique should ultimately be born from the author or it loses legitimacy. The editor is only the midwife of creation.

Well... I never spoke to them for three weeks.
And when my anger (& pride) diminished, I wrote a scene far better.
But - I must admit, Novella - I would have appreciated your approach far more.

 

[interbac]

Thank you all. I'm enlightened by the response.

 

[Cathy C]

its dial moist from shiny mould of her body liquid. '

If I had been critiquing this, Eugen, I would have found this a bit strange as dialogue. It does seem to be a little too picturesque for a flustered person to think of. But Novella is correct -- I probably would have approached it with questions, such as "Why would the speaker remember the watch face when confronted with the rest of the contents?" Something like that. I did like the passage quite a bit, but it didn't quite fit as dialogue. And I do get annoyed by editors/critiquers/appraisers who don't have any diplomacy. After all, all writing is the result of hard work, which should be given a certain amount of respect.

 

[Eugen]

Your observation of a fresh pair of eyes is dead right, Cathy. I was so carried away in painting a scene, that none of those questions arose to me regarding dialogue. But tact would have saved a few weeks of stilted silence, given my sweat on the piece and the trashing of it.