English grammar versus American

[namedujour]

I've posed this question a number of times in various forums, and no one has ever given me a satisfactory reply. I can always tell when a news article (or anything, for that matter) is written by a British writer because I see "have got."

As an American, I learned that the following is proper: get, got, have gotten. There is no "have got" in proper American English. It's either "have" or "have gotten."

So, I wondered if perhaps this is a colloquialism. Oftentimes Americans will say "different than" knowing it's incorrect (Brits use "different to" in the same manner), and that the correct form is "different from."

I'm wondering if Brits know "have got" is incorrect and use it anyway, or if British grammar is set up differently.

I went to a British dictionary and found the word "gotten" with the same usage as appears in American dictionaries. Is "have gotten" now considered to be an archaic term in speech and writing? Or is it just something everyone says and nobody (but an American) notices?

 

[novella]

That's funny. The English people I know attribute this particular error to Americans, as in "I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts," and "Boy, have I got news for you . . . ," and "I've got a brand new pair of rollerskates."

I'm American, and I refer to Chicago Manual of Style for usage. My hub is English and goes by OED and Chambers.

The English expand this American contraction "I've got" to "I have got" thinking it is an American usage, but regarding it as colloquial and incorrect.

I'll just add that (the American stylists) Strunk and White say "the colloquial have got for have should not be used in writing."

 

[Halo]

... or if British grammar is set up differently.

British grammar is quite often different. We never say "gotten" - British people consider that wrong. Some other examples I can think of are:

"I dove (sp?) into the pool." = USA
"I dived into the pool." = British

"He snuck past the guard." = USA
"He sneaked past the guard." = British.

Many American usages are starting to come into our speech more and more, through children watching lots of American TV and films. Quite often, they will say snuck or use an American word such as diaper for nappy.

 

[Infinity]

First of all, I'd like to say that I'm fascinated with the British version of English, not the American one!

"I've got" often means that I have had something from the past and I still have it now at the very moment. It's in present perfect tense. Both "I've got" and "I've gotten" are grammatically correct, but "I've gotten" is not widely used anymore. If you read loads of old books from the Middle Age, you'd see that "I've gotten" is used. The only and correct past participle for "get" was "gotten" at that time.

Today, English is mixed. The American usage of the language has got a strong influence on standard English. You'd not be surprised to see many ESL (English as a Second Language) learners study the American version of English rather than the British one. The only problem with this is that they tend to pick up "broken" American English as well. For example, "she don't" is a "broken" American English phrase that is very popular amongst Black/African Americans.

 

[novella]

First of all, I'd like to say that I'm fascinated with the British version of English, not the American one!

"I've got" often means that I have had something from the past and I still have it now at the very moment. It's in present perfect tense. Both "I've got" and "I've gotten" are grammatically correct, but "I've gotten" is not widely used anymore. If you read loads of old books from the Middle Age, you'd see that "I've gotten" is used. The only and correct past participle for "get" was "gotten" at that time.

Today, English is mixed. The American usage of the language has got a strong influence on standard English. You'd not be surprised to see many ESL (English as a Second Language) learners study the American version of English rather than the British one. The only problem with this is that they tend to pick up "broken" American English as well. For example, "she don't" is a "broken" American English phrase that is very popular amongst Black/African Americans.

There's a lot here that I must disagree with.

"I have gotten" is present perfect; "I have got" is not. Also it is not grammatically correct and never was. "I have gotten" is still very current and correct, e.g., I have gotten used to the weather; he has gotten sick several times. These are both correct and current, not Medieval, usage.

If you are referring by "Middle Age" English to English in the 13th through 15th centuries (I'm guessing that you would be referring to Chaucer), these phrases do not apply. The spelling was entirely different and not standardized and forms like "hathe takken" would have been used.

Why do you say "The American usage of the language has got a stong influence" instead of "has a strong influence"? The latter is the correct form. You've added no meaning by inserting "got."

I've worked as an editor in both British and American publishing houses and can attest that any editor in either would reject "have got" in favor of "have"--unless it is a colloquial piece or in dialogue.

Is English your first language?

 

[Infinity]

There's a lot here that I must disagree with.

"I have gotten" is present perfect; "I have got" is not. Also it is not grammatically correct and never was. "I have gotten" is still very current and correct, e.g., I have gotten used to the weather; he has gotten sick several times. These are both correct and current, not Medieval, usage.

If you are referring by "Middle Age" English, I'm guessing that you would be referring to Chaucer, in which case all of these phrases do not apply. The spelling was entirely different and not standardized and forms like "hathe takken" would have been used.

Why do you say "The American usage of the language has got a stong influence" instead of "has a strong influence"? The latter is the correct form. You've added no meaning by inserting "got."

I've worked as an editor in both British and American publishing houses and can attest that any editor in either would reject "have got" in favor of "have"--unless it is a colloquial piece or in dialogue.

I'm sorry...

Is English your first language?

No, it's not. It's my fourth language. Unfortunately, I'll be taking IBHL A1 English...Scary, isn't it?

When I first started learning English, which was 2 years ago, when I was almost 13, I picked up the British version of the English language. I've read many English grammar books but I'm afraid my English has not been perfect like native speaker's. I apologise if I make grammar errors (is it grammatical errors or grammar errors?) in my posting. Correct if it'd help. Thank you.

 

[novella]

I'm sorry...



No, it's not. It's my fourth language. Unfortunately, I'll be taking IBHL A1 English...Scary, isn't it?

When I first started learning English, which was 2 years ago, when I was almost 13, I picked up the British version of the English language. I've read many English grammar books but I'm afraid my English has not been perfect like native speaker's. I apologise if I make grammar errors (is it grammatical errors or grammar errors?) in my posting. Correct if it'd help. Thank you.

Please don't apologize!! You have my respect for knowing so many languages. I don't like to correct other people's grammar on a message board, because it's rude and you never know what's behind it. (I do sometimes tease a familiar face, though. )

Your English is more proficient than lots of native speakers, as you probably know. Best of luck with your exams.

 

[Infinity]

Your English is more proficient than lots of native speakers, as you probably know. Best of luck with your exams.

My Pre-IB English Literature and Composition teacher once disliked my British grammar. She said we should follow American English standard because we're living in the States! What non-sense! The programme we're studying is IB , which abbreviates International Baccaulaureate, not "American Baccalaureate" or AP (Advanced Placement). Moreover, the IB English final end-of-course exams are mostly graded by British professional teachers, so why would we care about whether we're using American version or British version.

Well, in everday conversations I have to use American English! Otherwise, no-one would understand what I'm talking about!

 

[Martin]

which was 2 years ago, when I was almost 13

So young, too. A hat tip to you, dear sir.

Cheers

 

[Infinity]

So young, too. A hat tip to you, dear sir.

Cheers

Thank you! How long've you been learning English?

 

[Martin]

My entire life, really. One of the upsides of watching a lot of TV as a kid is that you tend to pick up languages - English in most cases.

Been intensively studying it, at an academic level, for almost four years now.

Cheers

 

[K-Dawn]

Well, Americans do use "I've got" sometimes which stands for "I have got". Wouldn't that count?

 

[Infinity]

Well, Americans do use "I've got" sometimes which stands for "I have got". Wouldn't that count?

....Do you know that "I've got" is just the contraction form of "I have got". The same goes for "I've gotten" and "I have gotten"....

 

[StillILearn]

Ooh. Lookie at what I (have) found at the bottom of the well. Let's shine it up and use it.

 

[astralKnight]

"Have got" and "Have gotten" are both correct usage. It is a forced of habit.

It also depends on what era you live in. In ancient Britain might have more accurate English.

Lecturing others is not really proper. If I may say so.

 

[Poppy1]

Many American usages are starting to come into our speech more and more, through children watching lots of American TV and films. Quite often, they will say snuck or use an American word such as diaper for nappy.

A slight deviation here. NZ traditionally uses British English, both spelling and grammar. However, I've noticed kids starting to say things with an American accent eg Zee instead of Zed (Z) and dool instead of dual. Again, I'm sure, because of American TV and films.

 

[jaybe]

What an interesting thread this is. I've nothing to add, I just thought I'd let you all know I'm enjoying the read.

OH! Sorry, but I've thought of something - some American films (mooovys in U.S.speak) are unintelligible to me these days, they sound like they are speaking Double Dutch.

Come on America - English was your language, why change it?

 

[GreenKnight]

The concept of 'correct' or 'incorrect' is meaningless really, especially when talking about entire cultures. Agreed, massive grammatical deviation should be corrected, as should one's personal bugbear (mine at the moment is 'attendees', used to mean people attending a meeting... even though the ee suffix implies passivity not activity). But I digress...

My favourite tale of American grammar/spelling comes from Bill Bryson. It is 'aluminum/aluminium'. It's fascinating. The man who originally thought up the name (I forget who HE is, sadly!) couldn't decided between 'aluminum' and 'alumium'. The British decided to combine these into 'aluminium' to fit the style of metals like titanium etc. The Americans simply chose the first alternative, 'aluminum'. I was amazed to learn that it's not simply a shortening, but a genuine case of a different choice of word.

Bill Bryson in general is pretty much It as far as I'm concerned...