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Fantasty genre dead?

B

breading1

New Member
I used to love fantasy books.

I read books from Tolkien, Feist, Brooks, Weis & Hickman.

However, it had become clear to me that there is really no new material left in the fantasy genre.

I can summarise the plot in ALL the fantasy books that I've read:

============================================
1. A new powerful, dark force threatens the world.

2. Unwitting group of people with unique abilities or power band together to fight this new threat.

3. Sometimes different worlds can be accessed via a magic portal.

4. Armies are marshalled and clash. The good armies are eventually victorious.

5. Peace returns to the world.
==============================================

When you think about it, all the popular writers use the above plot. So we're really reading the same thing over and over again. That's why I stopped reading fantasy.

What do the new fantasy authors today write about? :confused:
 
I suggest reading some different fantasy authors. Michael Ende, Peter S. Beagle, Kathryn Wesley, etc. Just find different people than the ones you normally read. Or, read a series that never ends like Dragonlance, Star Wars, or something else.

Or, just do what I do: don't read fantasy anymore.
 
My new favorite is Jasper Fforde!

All your list of - the bad force appears -> fight the bad ->good days return are present there. It's surrealistic, very jumpy, very clever - what the fantasy should be like. Moreover, they are present in a completely new way, making it a NEW fantasy! And one must be a bit intelligent for its reading. This game I also like.

Besides, there have been Robert Sheckley with some nice fantasy - or was it SF? - I never know to tell. I recall enjoying his short stories. Also I like Harry Harrison. That's SF+detective. But they are "older" ones...
 
Well, if you put it that way... I mean yes, what Breading1 had said is correct. But, that should not stop us from reading this genre. If you so believe in those steps of the stories, then I think I can say this: You're born, you live, some of us get married and have children then you die. :confused:

And I am going to do the same at the end: die. But, I think the challenging part is not found at the end, but in the journey. The ending of the stories are same, - most times the good guys overcome the bad ones. But the process in the middle, the sacrifices, and the journey differs and we enjoy the varieties. :)
 
breading1, I understand where you are coming from, there are common elements in fantasy but I think the same can be said of many other genres too and those with far less creativity and imagination involved.

The current writers I read have some or most of those elements but also have so much more. I have read, or tried to read books from all the authors you mentioned and disliked most of them. I may get shot down in flames for admitting I'm a fantasy-lover that is not into Tolkein :) but my taste is exactly that...mine. I love RJ, GRRM, Anne Bishop and Jacqueline Carey to name just a few.

I agree Gilgamesh, the endless variations, imaginative ways of working through the core elements of fantasy and the individual inventions and ideas of the authors are what keep me reading it. I particularly like the authors that have 'shades of gray' chars... not completely good or evil just ppl making good or bad choices. That said, I am a bit fussy with the series I choose, the blurb or first few pages really have to grab me for me to try it.
 
breading1 said:
I can summarise the plot in ALL the fantasy books that I've read:

============================================
1. A new powerful, dark force threatens the world.

2. Unwitting group of people with unique abilities or power band together to fight this new threat.

3. Sometimes different worlds can be accessed via a magic portal.

4. Armies are marshalled and clash. The good armies are eventually victorious.

5. Peace returns to the world.
==============================================
Click to expand...

maybe your template applies to a range of sword and sourcery fantasies, but what about fairytales, your model doesn't fit these very well, or
morality tales for instance "Dorian Grey" and "Dr Faustus"?

You mention Tolkein, but I don't think your summary matches "The Hobbit" particularly well.

And thinking about the fantasy I have read in the last year or so: neither "Johnaton Strange & Mr Norrell" nor "Smoke & Mirrors" by Gaiman follow your pattern.

Pip
 
Every story has been told at some point. It's up to the author to make it interesting.

I used to be into MUDS when I was in high school. Sortof a brief description here.. a MUD is a text based game. You're displayed a room description or a monster description, and you have commands you can use to do different things. It's sortof like those books you can read where you can choose your own actions? I.e. if you do this, go to page 2. If you do this go to page 34...

Anyways... the MUD I was on the most was strictly medieval themed. But I used to argue that I could take any modern area and rewrite it so that it was medieval.

The point is, every story has already been told. The author chooses which stories he or she wants in their plot, how they want each character to react, and puts it together to make sense, and hopefully make it interesting.

I can relate to some of the things you put on your list... Christopher Tolkien wasn't as good as his dad. Raymond E. Feist's stuff now isn't as good as his earlier stuff. And of course Robert Jordan just passed, so we will never know for sure how he wanted his series to end.

But that doesn't meant here aren't some great books out there to be read if you stop second guessing what's going to happen, and just enjoy the storytelling abilities of the author.

Also, the 5 main points you list above are hardly strictly related to fantasy. Those are all common themes that a lot of people want to read about. The underdog winning. Good triumphing over evil. Those are themes that we all want to believe and appreciate even though things don't always work out that way.

Reading is an escape for most people.

Mathius
 
Unfortunately, I pretty much agree with breading1 in that I feel fantasy is pretty much dead in the water, but not dead as in dodo. The avalanche of derivatives flooding the market hasn't helped the cause, and anyone picking up a fantasy book nowadays is guilty of pretty much almost everything breading1 has accused the genre of being.

However, hope is not lost for the fantasy lover, as there are authors out there who are pushing the envelope, and for those readers have tasted enough of the fare currently on offer may start to look elsewhere for the different yet essentially fantastic. Some may even venture into contemporary literary fiction for sustenance, although never let it be known to certain quarters that you consider acclaimed fiction writers of, as Le Guin put it, 'committing genre.'

It's late here, but off the top of my head - look up China Mieville, Jeff Vandermeer (these two were introduced to me here), Le Guin's newer works, Haruki Murakami, my current fav David Mitchell, and (ta-da!) Guy Gavriel Kay (not the Fionavar Tapestry).

ds
 
I don't think it is... it is starting pretty much for me...

I really think there is more out there... There are things and plots and events unwritten...

You will see there will be a book out there that will surprise you....

I just wish I started reading more earlier in my life... but it seems... words pretty much slay me... I hate that of me...
 
Fantasy has been dead since its greatest writer died. Tolkien. Now I'm just waiting for another great fantasy writer to come along, because someone has to rejuvenate the fantasy genre.
 
I think fantasy would be a nice change where the bad guys win instead of the good guys =) I think in Tolkien's Unfinished Tales/Silmarillion, the story of Hurin ends badly for Hurin and his sister. Whoops, spoiler. That's a nice twist at least.
 
Fantasy can be more than that, but sadly the most popular fantasy series are those neverending "epic fantasy" that follows the basic plot of LOTR.
So i guess the readers can blame themselves if they dont get anything else.
 
Zolipara said:
Fantasy can be more than that, but sadly the most popular fantasy series are those neverending "epic fantasy" that follows the basic plot of LOTR.
So i guess the readers can blame themselves if they dont get anything else.
Click to expand...

If you only listen to the Top 40 songs in the music charts and watch the top rated movies from hollywood you would also think music and movies are all the same. You would miss out on the best stuff, the ones that really stick with you. It's up to people to use their own taste and look at the less popular things in life to find the things that really appeal the them as individuals not what the publicity machines tell them to like.

Readers can blame themselves if they limit their fantasy reading to popular epic fantasy and don't look at all of the other works on offer. Sure there is plenty of average, middle-range stuff out there but all genres have that and it's what makes the really good stuff stand out. There has to be an average for there to be above average.

There are many newer writers around that don't just blindly follow Tolkiens example. I don't like Tolkiens style because it's too old-fashioned and just does nothing for me. The Black Jewels trilogy, The Kushiel Legacy and the Deverry Series are all different from each other and Tolkien. I think they are great examples of modern fantasy. These books aren't ones I found on any 'popular book list', I found them by looking at the bookshelves and reading blurbs until something really grabbed my attention.
 
I agree a lot modern fantasy novels can get a little tedious. My biggest pet peeve is the plethora of character names that no one can pronounce. Of course it would be even worse if fantasy characters were named Suzie or Jim... As mentioned by others above, there are other types of fantasy out there, and they aren't impossible to find.

My recommendation would be to read a good murder mystery and anything else you can get your hands on. In a few months you'll be ready for some more fantasy.
 
Adele.Mighton said:
My biggest pet peeve is the plethora of character names that no one can pronounce.
Click to expand...
I have to agree with you here. Fantasy is one of my favourite genres but if the names are too obscure then I generally don't enjoy the book as much. I find the pronunciation gets in the way of the flow of the novel.
 
Wow! I am glad I read this thread.

I do NOT believe the Fantasy Genre is dead. At least I hope not! Because that is what I write!

However, I can happily say that my characters have pronounceable names: Lily, Sir Elo, Nicholas, Dexy, and Galbraith to name a few.

Also, my storyline does NOT at all follow the one listed. In fact, there is no world to save at all !!!

However, I guess I don't write what many call "high fantasy" I write fantasy that is more of a combination of contemporary fairy tale mixed with adventure and romance set in both the current human world and the fey worlds that I make up.

I'm glad to see fantasy readers are ready for something different and easy to read ... because that's the way I write.

:)
 
All stories follow basic principles. I think the appeal is how good the author can captivate us in these simple narratives through character depth as well as plot development.
 
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