Fructose corn syrup ( SPLIT from - Pizza - 'nuff said )

[jenn]

apple sauce is a sauce made from cored and peeled apples with a bit of water added then boiled down until it is all soft no chunks. it's great baby food, tasty with pork and can be used instead of oil in some recipes.

 

[Kookamoor]

Huh! There you go. I'll have to try it sometime. When I heard of it all I could think of was Homer and his pork chops, "Mmm... apple sauce... grklllll *drool sounds*".

 

[novella]

Brown sugar is no better for you than regular white cane sugar. It has no fiber or vitamins or health benefit.

Substituting apple sauce for sugar only gives you more fiber and vitamins, but your sugar intake remains the same. Further, all commercial apples are sprayed with pesticide and fungicide for an entire season and coated with agar agar (even organic apples are coated). A lot of obese kids are fat partly because they drink apple juice all day instead of water, a huge contributing factor.

Raw diets can keep your weight down, but there are some fruits and vegetables that release far more nutrients when they are cooked, so a raw diet for health is a bit of a joke. The idea that food is better just because it hasn't been cooked is ridiculous. Cooking does not reduce the fiber. It can make food more digestible. If you use the water you cook vegetables with (like in stew or soup) or else steam them, you do not lose significant nutrients, except for the breakdown of some of the water-soluable vitamins, but that loss is not significant enough to bar cooking. And half the stuff you get in a 'raw food' restaurant is seeking to imitate some form of cooked food.

Corn is the new petroleum. It can be used to make anything, and is used in some form in almost all processed foods in the US. It can be used to make plastics, as fuel, as construction material, as feed for animals, as a sugar source, as an oil source. There was a huge article on this in 2004 in the NY Sunday Times magazine.

Stevia has not been vetted for safety and has been linked to kidney failure in animals.

RK, I haven't heard of anyone eating canned vegatables in 20 years!

One thing I recommend to anyone interested in healthy food and physical cleanliness is a good (noncitrus) juicer. There's no substitute. It's very revitalizing.

 

[novella]

Here's a link to a good article about eating only raw foods. It points out the spurious claims about destroying enzymes at 118 degrees F, accessibility of nutrients, and the difficulty of getting certain necessary nutrients (B12 and protein) in a raw diet.


Raw Food Diet article

 

[jenn]

but honey, is honey bad? we are attempting to eliminate sugars as much as possible, but i have a wicked sweet tooth, so if i could still eat honey, in moderation, then i can do this. i mean how much damage could bees do?

 

[bobbyburns]

actually, the heating process is a chemical reaction that destroys vitamins and minerals in vegetables and fruits and makes them more difficult to digest. it doesn't displace them. I'm not saying this because I am on the diet. it's just an observation. the fact is, human beings are the only species that cooks, pasteurizes, and processes their food, and, incidentally, they're also the most unhealthy. if you look at how our bodies work, we don't have the teeth or the digestive systems to process raw meat. it would probably kill us if we tried to eat it. I guess that's the purpose of going raw... to show us how our bodies are supposed to take in food. people think they will whither if we do, but that's obviously a lie. if a gorilla that eats nothing but fruit can bench press 4,000 lbs, there's obviously something going on there. even one of those little chimpanzees can tear the door off your car by the hinges. if you consume nothing but fruit and green leayf vegetables all the time, your body will link amino acids and form protein strands. so I wouldn't trust everything in that article. it tried to point out how it is linked to a kind of spiritual philosophy, which was superfluous and seemed suspect.

 

[novella]

"the heating process is a chemical reaction that destroys vitamins and minerals in vegetables and fruits and makes them more difficult to digest. it doesn't displace them."

bobby, this just isn't so. Heat does not destroy the vitamins and minerals in food. High, prolonged heat can destroy some vitamins, but not all. It doesn't destroy minerals. Steaming vegetables for 10 minutes doesn't have any real detrimental effect on most of the vitamins. The raw foodists don't even think that. They say heat destroys the enzymes, but that's not even true. All enzymes break down at different temperatures, and there are thousands of them, and--as it says in the article I link to--the human body makes most of the enzymes it needs.

Sometimes cooking legumes and nuts such as sunflower seeds makes them more nutritious because the heat destroys elements that block the body from using the nutrients.

Water soluble vitamins can be leached out during cooking, but only a small amount. Lycopene, which is shown to be cancer-preventive, is only accessible to the body in cooked tomatoes. Beta carotene in carrots and other vegetables becomes much more accessible when the vegetables are cooked.

A balance of cooked and raw food along with some lean animal protein is probably the best way to stay healthy. The raw-food movement is a belief system, not a healthy diet for humans.

And jenn, the scoop on honey is that it can have health benefits. As a form of sugar, it is no better than other sugars, in the sense of keeping your blood sugar level steady or your weight down. However, honey that is made from local plants by local bee colonies may have a homeopathic effect for hayfever symptoms. In other words, because you are ingesting something from the local plants you might build up some immunity to the effects of their pollen. That's just a theory, but I think there is some science behind it.

 

[jenn]

ok so it's fine to eat , just don't go drinking it out of the plastic squeeze bear. my father-in-law is a bee keeper so i have access to a lot of honey.

 

[novella]

This chart shows very specifically which vitamins are effected by heat and how much. As it also shows, air, light, and water can also have detrimental effects, but I don't think raw foodists are that concerned with these other methods of nutritional erosion.


Effects of Water, Air, Heat, and Light on Various Vitamins and Minerals

If you look around that site a little, you will also find charts on specific effects of heat on specific foods, some for the better, some for the worse.

 

[bobbyburns]

I found at least three other charts off google that conflicted with that chart.

Factors Affecting Vitamin Loss in Foods

NUTRIENT MAIN CAUSES OF LOSS
Ascorbic Acid Water leaching, oxidation-accelerated by heat, light, copper, iron
Carotenoids Oxidation, isomerization;accelerated by heat, light
Cobalamin (B12) Alkaline and acid condititions, oxidation
Folic Acid Light and heat
Niacin Water leaching
Pantothenic acid Alkaline and acid condititions;accelerated by heat
Pyrodoxine (B6) Light accelerated by alkaline condititions
Riboflavin (B2) Light and heat accelerated by alkaline condititions
Thiamin (B1) Alkaline conditions, water leaching, oxidation; accelerated by heat and light
Vitamin E Oxidation
Vitamin A Oxidation and isomerization; accelerated by heat and light
Vitamin D Alkaline condititions;accelerated by light and heat
Vitamin K Light and alkaline condititions


Source: Modern Nutrition in Health and Disease 9th Ed. Table 111.1. Williams & Wilkins, Baltimore. 1999

 

[novella]

This isn't contradictory information at all. It is in complete agreement. Your chart doesn't show that these vitamins are destroyed. It shows that high heat can accelerate destruction (over prolonged periods, I guarantee), and that water soluble vitamins can be leached out. That's the same as what my chart shows, as well as the effects of acid and alkalines on these nutrients.

I think if you read each of these in terms of degree and the real effect on health, you will see that they say much the same thing. If you scorch a carrot for two hours, you will destroy the vitamins. If you steam it for 10 minutes, you don't destroy any of the vitamins, but make the A and betacarotine more accessible. It's not a simple matter of cook or not cook. It's a matter of degree and judgment.

 

[Kookamoor]

Actually, bobby, I believe we are more closely related to the chimpanzee, which does include meat in part of its diet. I recall watching a documentary in which the chimpanzees worked as a team to hunt and corner smaller monkeys - rather similar to what our ancestors discovered. Jane Goodall recorded over 20 years ago that primates kill other animals and eat the meat happily.

My understanding is that while we used to be herbivores (hence our appendix) we adapted to accommodate meat into our diets which was a more efficient way of receiving our dietary requirements. In the wild, herbivores have to contantly forage for food, as the high protein plant products we eat today (such as soy and other products of modern agriculture) were not available.

As a result of this change to eating meat our bodies are efficient at processing animal proteins, just as they have perhaps become inefficient at processing cellulose (unlike herbivores). It is true that after a long period of not eating meat that it will make one physically ill, I believe this has to do with the enzymes that are used to process animal proteins being decreased. But this will change over time. In regards to the length of our small intestine, it is actually more closely aligned to that of an omnivore, with a length of 8 times our bodies (head to anus, that is). This length ration falls halfway between carnivores and herbivores. Carnivores such as cats and dogs have an intestine of about 3.5 times, while other herbivores like horses and cattle have longer ones (12 times and 20 times, respectively).

Anyway, all this is beside the point. No matter whether you choose to eat meat or not there are ways that one can maintain that diet healthily.

 

[bobbyburns]

novella, check this link out. b-1 thiamine, b-5 pantothenic acid, b-6 pyridoxine, b-12 cyanocobalamin, b-15, b-17, folic acid, c ascorbic acid, e, f, p... all degenerate "rapidly" in the presence of heat.

 

[bobbyburns]

koookamoor, I meant orangutan.

sorry for the confusion.

 

[novella]

Sorry, bobby, but I don't trust that source. For one thing, though animal-based foods are some of the best sources for some of those nutrients, they are, of course, not mentioned. Yet you have horsetail? Wheatgrass?

The argument that a diet including strawberries, papaya, horsetail, and wheatgrass is somehow more 'natural' for humans just doesn't make any sense. If you look at animal populations, they eat what is available in their little patch, which would lead one to the conclusion that humans should be able to survive nicely on whatever is growing nearby at any time of year. Which is simply impossible in most parts of the globe unless you include animal food sources.

 

[bobbyburns]

I just want you to know, novella, this is testing my very competency. I probably wouldn't have researched half of this stuff if it weren't for you.

 

[novella]

You're a sweetie pie.

Which is very nutritious and good hot or cold.

 

[bobbyburns]

it's cool talking about this stuff, even though you never want to agree with me on anything. that said, I think the only way I'm gonna figure out if this diet is legit is by trying it. even this thing with the sugar has just been kind of an experiment. I started out not eating junkfood during the week. I'd eat kashi bars and rice and drink those bolthouse farms juices. once the weekend hit though, I'd be ordering pepperoni pizzas and drinking can after can of coke. but then I'd wake up the next day and I'd have this general feeling of being depressed. in a way, if everyone told me sucrose was good for me at that point, it wouldn't matter, because I'd know they were feeding me a lie. it's the same with this raw food diet. if it works, I'll know it. the brain requires energy just like all the other organs, and, certainly, if the body could find a more efficient way overall to tap into its supply, there'd be a noticeable change in the mind's perception. that's what I'm really trying to get out of it.

 

[novella]

Yo, hold on there a sec. One of the reasons I know about this stuff is because I have done it and still do sometimes.

Every couple of months I do a juice fast for a week, just to get clean. It's good both mentally and physically, in the short term. Basically it's just spending a few days only having fresh vegetable juice (not prepackaged), which really feels different from anything else. It's not the same as not eating at all or as 'dieting.' It forces me to appreciate what it feels like to be free of salt, sugar, fat, and junk. For some reason, it's very restful and revitalizing. But I think to do that over a long time wouldn't be healthy.

I think people have to listen to their own bodies and do what they feel works for them. Everyone is different in what they need to feel well. I think of juice-fasting as a tune-up, like flushing the radiators and getting an oil change.

But there's a lot of bad information out there, and it's good to do some reading about it. You don't want to go poisoning yourself with new-age supplements or depriving your system of some essential nutrient just because a guru says some regimen is 'natural.' The essential texts on raw-food diets are way out of date and poorly researched (talking about Howell's books which are always quoted as the Bible).

I tend toward the European view that moderation and diversity and enjoyment are the keys to health, not deprivation or some invented notion about what man was 'meant' to eat. It's nutritionally impossible for humans to survive and be healthy on what grows locally in any vicinity without adding animal products.

Anyway, if you've ever watched a bunch of guys around a barbeque, you will observe some very primitive hunter-gatherer behavior surrounding the burning of meat for consumption.

 

[Kookamoor]

If you look at animal populations, they eat what is available in their little patch, which would lead one to the conclusion that humans should be able to survive nicely on whatever is growing nearby at any time of year. Which is simply impossible in most parts of the globe unless you include animal food sources.

I'm not sure about this, novella. Wasn't early man nomadic, rather like many animal species? Moving from place to place in accordance with the season and food supply?

I admire people who wish to be healthy, but I think there are far too many fads out there. What it boils down to is that man has changed since his early predecesors both in lifestyle, habitat and biology. Most of us have other things we wish to do besides find food all day, and many of us live in habitats and in populations that we would not have been able to without technology.

While I'm all for eating a nutritious diet, one must question a lot of the information that is out there. I still shudder at the bandwagon that made the Atkins concept so popular. And with the propensity of new fads that tell people that "with this suppliment you'll lose 5 pounds per week without any exercise" it is really no small wonder that some people fall for it. It does not help that every day 'experts' are telling us that some new food will kill us. Newsflash: we're all going to die eventually. I think novella said it very well:

I tend toward the European view that moderation and diversity and enjoyment are the keys to health, not deprivation or some invented notion about what man was 'meant' to eat.

Edit: Ah... I got a little off topic there - sorry. I'm really enjoying this thread and am learning a lot. Keep going guys!