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Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince - Discussion *Spoiler Alert*

Been away from this thread awhile and enjoyed catching up ...

Was DD pleading with Snape to prevent Malfoy from doing something irrevocable (killing DD)? Malfoy has a big role yet to play and DD and Snape have assured him of surviving a little longer at great cost.

Has Rowling served up red herrings before? I'm trying to recall something on the order of the two she's seemingly given us with HBP. Not DD's death--think that's pretty certain and doesn't discount his still appearing in #7, but this "Spiderman" break with Ginny and his thought of not returning to Hogwarts. Has Rowling gone back on such foreshadowing in past books?

With so so so much to tie up in the final book it would seem the worst thing for her to also deal with a travelogue through the European wizard world! I have to think that Harry's going to return ... and as DADA, it would provide compelling reason to do so.

Any ideas about who is going to take charge of the OotP?
 
Minerva McGonagall will have charge of Hogwarts. And Mad Eye Moody for OoP? He seems most likely to be in charge because of all he has experienced.
 
Ben Holiday said:
I finally got around to reading this as well and enjoyed it overall but found many of the same sore points others did here. It seemed quite strange how far school and characters were shoved in the back here 60% of the book seemed to be Harry thinking about Malfoy or trying to convince the others of his thoughts it just felt a little void of the usual goings on. I'm liking Snape more and more though unlike people who think he's still a double agent I'm hoping he actually is fully evil now and wondering if he could be a living horcux it would be interesting.

On the other hand if Snape is still on the side of good then I have to think back to Dumbledore's talk with Malfoy that he could easily make it appear that he was dead and so were his family. So could the headmaster have staged the whole coup at the end to up Snape's credebility and could they have faked his death?
Snape has been one of my favourite characters all the way through, and I'm having a very hard time deciding whether I think he's good or evil.

His hatred and bitterness is most definitely genuine, but considering:
1. While Albus and Harry were in the cave Dumbledore kept telling Harry that he was worth more than an old man - as if preparing him for the loss of his mentor.
2. When Harry and Dumbledore went to the school from Rosmerta's Dumbledore told Harry that he would have to get Snape. Not help, not another teacher, not the nearest authority (who would likely have been Minerva or Filius, living on the higher floors of the school), but Snape who lives the furthest away down in the dungeons. Why was it so important that Snape should be there?
3. The details of the events turned out differently than Albus had expected, but consider this: Albus can surely do magic without his wand. I believe he could easily have disarmed Malfoy (and if nothing else he could have let harry do it instead of Petrifying him). He didn't. He was waiting for something - I believe he was waiting for Snape, who else?
4. He used the time to talk to Malfoy, quite obviously an attempt at convincing him to do the right thing, and most definitely something that will keep Malfoy thinking hard in a long time afterwards. Snape killing Dumbledore in cold blood in front of Malfoy may also have an effect towards this end.
5. The "Severus, please..." can mean so many things I'm not even gonna list them, but obviously it proves nothing about Snape's allegiance.

Now I would like to know why Dumbledore trusted Snape so implicitly. What was it exactly that had happened back then when Snape swicthed sides? What exactly did he tell Dumbledore? An insight into this might make our judgment easier, but I doubt we'll ever know, Snape is the wandering enigma of these books. Snape is an accomplished Legillimens as is pointed out in the book, but so are Voldemort and Dumbledore, that means it all boils down to who's the better Legillimens. For all I know Snape can have fooled both Dumbly and Voldy and are currently non-aligned but will choose a side once there's a clear winner.

My reason for believing that Snape is not completely evil and nasty: He did not kill Filius Flitwick. He cannot have been aware of the two girls outside his chambers when Flitwick came to warn him of the attack. He could have killed Filius and no one would have known till after he had fled along with the Death Eaters thus 'declaring' his allegiance. Killing Filius would not have ruined any plans, would not have disrupted anything from Snape's point of view. But he did not kill him. Why not? As I mentioned he could not have refrained from killing Flitwick simply because it'd reveal him to the girls - he did not know they would be outside his chambers. This, to me, weighs quite heavily in Snape's favour. He did not kill needlessly - not exactly a trait you often encounter among Death Eaters.

So anyone agree with this assessment?
 
Thumbs up, JA, I like the way you think! It would greatly disappoint me if Snape is really a bad guy ...
 
I just had a brainwave mayby by destroying horcrruxes u release the soul back to the source untill it is complete so wen harry releases the final piece voldy is whole again and mortal.
 
Snape's fear

JK has said that giving away the form of Snape's Boggart and Patronus says too much. We'll definitely find out what Snape's worst fear is, and it'll be important.


this was said bout the 6th book well wat is snapes fear
 
Dermotjpr said:
JK has said that giving away the form of Snape's Boggart and Patronus says too much. We'll definitely find out what Snape's worst fear is, and it'll be important.


this was said bout the 6th book well wat is snapes fear
I would say one of the things Snape fears is being in someone else's shadow, but I don't know how that would translate into boggarts
 
I don't think so, because then why would creating horcruxes be a danger to the wizard? I doubt that Dumbledore would destroy all the horacruxes first, unless the were weakening Voldermort in the process.
 
Why would you say this? He lived in Voldermort's shadow as his Death Eater and in Dumbledore's shadow as his faithful teacher/spy and in James' shadow as a student at Hogwarts and he confined himself to a shadow by not revealing himself as the Half Blood Prince until he was fleeing Hogwarts. No I would say that Snape very much enjoys the shadow since he has always been in one.
But I am stumped as to what the Boggart would show for him.
 
Its probably something dumb like comitment or something, ya know since he does seem to switch sides so much.

Hey Carnahan, learn some tact and dont be so rude the next time you disagree with someone's opinion.:mad:
 
h_carnahan said:
He lived in Voldermort's shadow as his Death Eater and in Dumbledore's shadow as his faithful teacher/spy and in James' shadow as a student at Hogwarts and he confined himself to a shadow by not revealing himself as the Half Blood Prince until he was fleeing Hogwarts.
Yes, and he's always been bitter for it.
 
h_carnahan said:
Why would you say this? He lived in Voldermort's shadow as his Death Eater and in Dumbledore's shadow as his faithful teacher/spy and in James' shadow as a student at Hogwarts and he confined himself to a shadow by not revealing himself as the Half Blood Prince until he was fleeing Hogwarts. No I would say that Snape very much enjoys the shadow since he has always been in one.
I disagree that this means that he enjoys the shadow. He loathed James because he was in his shadow. Snape is a man who, IMHO, craves glory and perfection in the eyes of others, not someone who enjoys being outdone and covered by someone else's shadow.
 
MonkeyCatcher said:
I disagree that this means that he enjoys the shadow. He loathed James because he was in his shadow. Snape is a man who, IMHO, craves glory and perfection in the eyes of others, not someone who enjoys being outdone and covered by someone else's shadow.
My point exactly
 
MonkeyCatcher said:
Snape is a man who, IMHO, craves glory and perfection in the eyes of others, not someone who enjoys being outdone and covered by someone else's shadow.
But he has always been in one, and doesn't know perfection ect. if he looked in the Mirror of Erised (?) maybe thats what he would see... but living in a shadow can't be his fear if that is what he has always done, can it?
 
h_carnahan said:
But he has always been in one, and doesn't know perfection ect. if he looked in the Mirror of Erised (?) maybe thats what he would see... but living in a shadow can't be his fear if that is what he has always done, can it?
No, I don't think that it is his fear, but I don't think that he 'enjoys' it. He obviously despises being in the shadow of others, but there is nothing much he can do about it. He has always been in a shadow, but I believe that he /craves/ glory and perfection in the eyes of others. The way that he changed some of those spells in Harry's spellbook displayed to me that he is always reaching to be the best and to do things nothing less than perfect.
 
What are the clues again? Didn't it say something in regard to what Snape's boggart and patronus looked like? That they resembled a certain shape...
 
I don’t think he likes being in the Shadow. Wasn’t there something in POA when he thought he was going to get The Order of Merlin?

Anyway, I believe the big rumor about Snape is that he’s a vampire. Something along that line would fit if his boggart is that revealing.
 
Robert said:
Anyway, I believe the big rumor about Snape is that he’s a vampire. Something along that line would fit if his boggart is that revealing.
Unless he's some kind of vampire where daylight does not harm him I do not see this being the case. He's attended Quidditch games (recall when Harry was knocked off his broomstick and they thought it was Snape) and was outdoors in his youth (recall the vision in the pensieve where he was hung upside-down by James Potter).

I can't help but think there is more to the James-Lilly-Snape-Voldemort relationship than we think.
 
Kookamoor said:
Unless he's some kind of vampire where daylight does not harm him I do not see this being the case. He's attended Quidditch games (recall when Harry was knocked off his broomstick and they thought it was Snape) and was outdoors in his youth (recall the vision in the pensieve where he was hung upside-down by James Potter).

I can't help but think there is more to the James-Lilly-Snape-Voldemort relationship than we think.


I would agree if not for the fact that he is a potions master and it wouldn't be unusual in JK's world to be able to create a potion that would allow him to do those things.

I don't see how there could be anything to the James-Lilly-Snape-Voldemort relationship. I believe Voldemort was before James/Lilly/Snape's time in hogwarts. I believe JK has already dismissed any Lilly-Snape relationship.
 
Robert said:
I don't see how there could be anything to the James-Lilly-Snape-Voldemort relationship. I believe Voldemort was before James/Lilly/Snape's time in hogwarts. I believe JK has already dismissed any Lilly-Snape relationship.
I didn't think the animosity between Snape and James was ever really explained fully, nor the reason why Lily and James ended up together. Lily treated James with disdane in the vision in the pensieve, and had sympathy for Snape.

There's definately more to the relationship between Snape and Voldemort, and it wouldn't surprise me if James was tied up in that too. It's unlikely that Lily was because she's muggle-born.
 
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