Is reading too much a depravation of the mind?

[novella]

Aren't commercials designed for that specific reason, to show to the viewers that one product is the best? Most of the time they don't even show a reason why this product is better, they just have some graphic that catches your attention and makes you associate a thought or a feeling for a product.

Commercials are looking for suckers. Their goal is to sell something to someone, without necessarily comparing true attributes of products. Are you saying that buying into that is a good thing because it's an easier decision for you?


Whose side of this relationship are you on? You seem to be advocating for being a sucker. Don't you think a buyer should bring a little knowledge of value to a sales agreement?


Are you intentionally confusing the two points of view? I really don't want to call you names again--that was rude of me, mea culpa--but the goals of the buyer and the seller are very different and not to be confused. The buyer has a responsibility to him/herself to find out what the best deal is, not to take the seller's pitch at face value.


Want to buy a bridge? I have a very nice bridge, nicer than all the others, leading straight to Brooklyn. Only $1200, for you. Cash and carry.

 

[Motokid]

ecks, I think your biggest mistake is you literally went for the jugular long before you built up enough of a report with the people in this forum. It is “The Book Forum” after all. You’ve attacked what people here have very deep passion for.

Do not make the mistake of thinking members here are regular, normal people who just happen to like books too. Most here are very unique, and have great, great love and obvious passion for reading and writing.

Imagine going into an American Automobile Lovers forum and asking who thinks the Corvette is an overrated piece of rolling trash built by ignorant, undereducated American high school dropouts?

 

[ecks]

Yes, you are right, motokid, that's exactly what i was thinking. I can't help questioning everything that I do, though, and am always thinking whether something I do is really worth it. I think that it's a weakness, because if I do that, I can't really accomplish anything. I thought this forum was more about discussing books rather than praising them. And that is what I mean, you can read a thousand books a day, but if you do not stop and think about them, they are worthless. If you read relevant information, stuff that you really care and have a passion for, you are bound to think over it and analyze it. That is why people get turned off from books, to some degree. In schools, teachers are teaching irrelevant information that does not concern the students, and they lose interest, because they reason: since I can't apply it in real life, what's the point of knowing it? I know some of you have thought to yourself in high school when you were studying for a math test, "Where am I going to use this in the real world?"

You see, I am not alone in thinking that you are discounting books as a source of knowledge. Read the thread!

That doesn't mean anything. Many great thinkers have been thought of being crazy. It's all mass opinion. Why should I trust someone else to tell me what is right and what is wrong, and ignore my opinions?

Can you please say what kind of information you would consider irrelevant.

It's all relative to the person. For me, for instance, I would not read about the human anatomy, or what the bone is composed of, because I will never be a doctor. However, I might read about the way muscles work, since I'm into weightlifting and that information would be relevant to me. I would never want to learn how Lord Of The Rings or Jurassic Park was made, since I would never be a director. I mean, it's all nice and handy information, but what is the propability that you will ever use it? Now, if I break my bone, and decide that i do not want it to happen again, I can read up on bone structure since now I could use that information.

Having a lot of information does not force anyone to be politically correct.

Why not? You have to expain this. I explained my theory, now it's your turn. What I meant by my statement is that, the more we know about all different cultures, the less we can say without offending someone. Now, let me give you an example. In my country, people don't know about different cultures. They discuss other cultures and people harshly, but at least they are able to make a statement without fear that someone will get offended. Here, in America, you can't really express your thoughts freely, because whatever you say might anger the other person. Take this forum, for example: I can't express my thoughts freely without offending someone. What am I supposed to do, supress them?

This is not a superficial point--it's the main point. It's impossible to learn sufficientlyl about these ideas without reading about them.

Ok, but please tell me how knowing about the universe will help you accomplish anything in your daily life, except if you're a physict?

Are you saying that buying into that is a good thing because it's an easier decision for you?

No, I'm saying that people do it unconsiously because they are naturally lazy. They would naturally trust the seller, and not do any research themselves. This is a parallel to reading, and please, try not to get offended, but in my opinion people would rather watch TV, read or play video games, than actually going out and experiencing something and deciding for themselves, rather than trust someone else who has gone through it. Whether that is good or bad, I don't know, I'm just stating an observation. Notice, in the topic, I did not make a statement, I asked a question, which means that I am stating an opinion, not a fact, which is open to discussion.

 

[jenn]

I can't help questioning everything that I do, though, and am always thinking whether something I do is really worth it. I think that it's a weakness, because if I do that, I can't really accomplish anything.

this isn't a weakness this is human nature. this is how we grow as people. we evaluate and question ourselves and sometimes we make crap decisions and sometimes we make brilliant ones, fuelled by research and intuition.

I thought this forum was more about discussing books rather than praising them. And that is what I mean, you can read a thousand books a day, but if you do not stop and think about them, they are worthless.

we do discuss books, constantly. but we are all here because we love them. some are brilliant and some are shit, but we still love to read.

It's all relative to the person. For me, for instance, I would not read about the human anatomy, or what the bone is composed of, because I will never be a doctor. However, I might read about the way muscles work, since I'm into weightlifting and that information would be relevant to me. I would never want to learn how Lord Of The Rings or Jurassic Park was made, since I would never be a director. I mean, it's all nice and handy information, but what is the propability that you will ever use it? Now, if I break my bone, and decide that i do not want it to happen again, I can read up on bone structure since now I could use that information.

so as a stay at home mom, why would i read anything else other than childcare and cooking books? it makes no sense what you are saying. what about entertainment? what about having a laugh? what about broadening my mind so that one day when my kids are grown i can say, you know i am really interested in this subject and may pursue a career in it. name one docter who became a docter who said you know, screw it, i'm going to go experiance medicine first hand.i'm not going to that gp.

the more we know about all different cultures, the less we can say without offending someone. Now, let me give you an example. In my country, people don't know about different cultures. They discuss other cultures and people harshly, but at least they are able to make a statement without fear that someone will get offended. Here, in America, you can't really express your thoughts freely, because whatever you say might anger the other person. Take this forum, for example: I can't express my thoughts freely without offending someone. What am I supposed to do, supress them?

huh? so are you saying that being ignorant of other cultures means that making offensive statements about them is ok, cause you don't know any better? so i don't know about the united states, so it's ok for me to say bad things about them.
why would you have even started this thread if you didn't want to rock the boat a bit. people don't mind arguing, and they do get angry. ask moto, he has born the brunt of alot, but his arguments are clear and HE doesn't get bent when people disagree.

 

[hay82]

That is why people get turned off from books, to some degree. In schools, teachers are teaching irrelevant information that does not concern the students, and they lose interest, because they reason: since I can't apply it in real life, what's the point of knowing it? I know some of you have thought to yourself in high school when you were studying for a math test, "Where am I going to use this in the real world?"

Not knowing what you are going to use the things you learn, is simply because you don't know enough yet. Haven't you ever been in a situation where you suddenly found yourself needing a skill you thought was quite useless when you learned it? Seeing as physics is only relevant to a physicist what is the point of teaching it at all? No one is born a physicist so the subject would have to be removed. Then we would get no physicist. Perhaps we should all just learn how to cook and hunt, and settle for that, that is all you need to survive.

That doesn't mean anything. Many great thinkers have been thought of being crazy. It's all mass opinion. Why should I trust someone else to tell me what is right and what is wrong, and ignore my opinions?

But in order to have opinions you have to have some knowledge or that opinions wouldn't matter the least bit, at least it will not matter to me.

What I meant by my statement is that, the more we know about all different cultures, the less we can say without offending someone. Now, let me give you an example. In my country, people don't know about different cultures. They discuss other cultures and people harshly, but at least they are able to make a statement without fear that someone will get offended. Here, in America, you can't really express your thoughts freely, because whatever you say might anger the other person. Take this forum, for example: I can't express my thoughts freely without offending someone. What am I supposed to do, supress them?

The reason you can't freely state your thoughts is that you know that it will offend someone. If everybody didn't want to learn anything about different cultures then I suppose there would be a lot more difficulties than there are now, although there are quite a lot of difficulties.

 

[jenn]

Don't most people do that all the time? Aren't commercials designed for that specific reason, to show to the viewers that one product is the best? Most of the time they don't even show a reason why this product is better, they just have some graphic that catches your attention and makes you associate a thought or a feeling for a product. Hence, you're ignoring all the other products because you "feel" that the particular product is the best.

of course they are, and then we as consummers read to educate ourselves on the product, and ask questions to make better decisions. i don't know what kind of shopper you are, but the seller is the last person i trust, if at all.
when we bought our house we heard the pitch of the realtor who represents the house. then we brought in our own inspector, then we talked to the bank, then we came again with our realtor and my husbands father who is a plumber and electrician, then we chatted up the neighbours about the schools and talked to the waitress in the diner about what had she heard about that neighbourhood. then we bought the house. there was no purchase because the house looked good on paper.

 

[ecks]

Well, but in order to get anywhere, we have to drive forward with some idea, not caring whether it is right or wrong. But is there such thing as right or wrong anymore in this world? I guess that's where moral absolutism and relativism comes into play, and that's a whole different discussion.

o as a stay at home mom, why would i read anything else other than childcare and cooking books? it makes no sense what you are saying.

I don't know, I think you are misinterpiting my point. Maybe I can't express myself well enough so that other people can understand. If you are content and happy with staying at home, then read what you can use firsthand, in my opinion. When you decide that you want to do something more, ie become a doctor, or a computer analyzer, or a physict, that is when you pick up something you can use. However, first you must find your interest. That interest comes from how you would like to be percieved in the future, you in your own mind, not in someone else's. And outside media distill that self image of yourself with their own images.

huh? so are you saying that being ignorant of other cultures means that making offensive statements about them is ok, cause you don't know any better?

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm saying it's human intuition for a person to overgeneralize about a group of people. It's good to know about different cultures and not say rash comments that are really uncalled for, but then again on the other side of the spectrum you must always hold your tongue and think whether what you say will offend someone. The best is that golden middle.

his arguments are clear and HE doesn't get bent when people disagree.

I do agree that my arguments are unclear, and that is because I always question my logic, and at the end it comes out all mixed up. And I don't get bend when people disagree, I get bent when people refuse to comprehend what I have to say.

 

[novella]

"What I meant by my statement is that, the more we know about all different cultures, the less we can say without offending someone. Now, let me give you an example. In my country, people don't know about different cultures. They discuss other cultures and people harshly, but at least they are able to make a statement without fear that someone will get offended. Here, in America, you can't really express your thoughts freely, because whatever you say might anger the other person. Take this forum, for example: I can't express my thoughts freely without offending someone. What am I supposed to do, supress them?"

Bigotry is not justified by ignorance.

Being stupid and prejudiced is not better just because you don't realize how stupid and bigotted you look to others.

I don't think you're offending anyone. You're certainly not offending me. I just think that what you're saying is a load of nonsense.

If you make no sense, you only do yourself a disservice. Everybody else is exactly as they were before.

 

[ksheppard]

But how can you know what information will or won't be relevant at some point in your life? It's an impossibility to plan out every aspect of your life, it's a changing, fluid thing.

the more we know about all different cultures, the less we can say without offending someone.

I think the exact opposite of this is true. The more we know about all different cultures, the more we can broaden our ability to talk about them intelligently, the more facts we can bring to our conversation and the less offensive the conservation is. If you know nothing about a culture, the more likely you are to be offensive when you talk about it.

 

[ecks]

But how can you know what information will or won't be relevant at some point in your life? It's an impossibility to plan out every aspect of your life, it's a changing, fluid thing.

You can't, but you can eliminate a lot of possibilites. It's a matter of how much you know about yourself. If you are interested in one subject, and you feel drawn to it, why know something which doesn't concern you.

Haven't you ever been in a situation where you suddenly found yourself needing a skill you thought was quite useless when you learned it?

Yes, but how much stuff can you learn so for every possibility, to know something about it. The brain too, it refuses to learn something which it thinks won't be used again. Would you ever learn a new language, just for the hell of it, because there's a possibility that in the distant future that you might be able to utilize it? Your will and brain will have to know that this is useful for something, otherwise you won't be able to memorize anything. And hay82, you might be right that in the begining there needs to be some kind of introduction to everything, to know what your interests are. However, once you pick a field and focus on it, why care about anything else except than the bare necessities. Since, if you take away your attention from one thing and start focusing on another, you are essentially diminishing from the essential field.

 

[Kookamoor]

It's all relative to the person. For me, for instance, I would not read about the human anatomy, or what the bone is composed of, because I will never be a doctor. However, I might read about the way muscles work, since I'm into weightlifting and that information would be relevant to me. I would never want to learn how Lord Of The Rings or Jurassic Park was made, since I would never be a director. I mean, it's all nice and handy information, but what is the propability that you will ever use it? Now, if I break my bone, and decide that i do not want it to happen again, I can read up on bone structure since now I could use that information.

Why not? You have to expain this. I explained my theory, now it's your turn.

My turn! Goody... I think I see your point to a certain extent, Ecks. But I disagree with you. If I were to analyse your personality on the basis of this post I would say that you are a very practical person. You want to know the facts about things that you are interested in. I would also guess that you are not much of a fiction reader.

Not everyone is like this, however! I never want to be a Director, but I think it's interesting to know how a movie is put together. I am not an architect, but if I'd made some different choices I might have been, so I want to read about Frank Lloyd Wright.

I like to read and enter different worlds. We have only one life, but reading and exploring new ideas gives us a chance to explore other 'lives'. Not because we are dissatisfied with our own, but becase we want to know what other things are like.

And it makes for interesting conversation! You're sitting around having a few drinks with friends and the topic of conversation turns to broken bones. I can pipe up with the recent Australian story of a kid who severed both hands and a foot with a basketball ring and discuss what I learnt about the structure of the human forearm from an anatomical diagram that accompanied that article.

The fact is, many people use reading to broaden their horizons because they are interested in a wide range of things. If you are interested in specific subjects by all means only read and think about them. But you have to appreciate that many people enjoy openning their eyes to new lives and new challenges.

 

[ecks]

Kookamoor, the personality analysis is somewhat correct. Let me explain my dilemma, however, and I speak from my personal experience and only think that my thoughts are right in my own mind. I am the type of person who becomes obsessed with a subject, almost to the point where I start thinking day and night about it. I find that subject to be the most interesting and novel idea. Then, as I start plunging and analyzing it more, I understand that there are more important things in life. So I go on to the next thing in a week. Like for instance, this week I would be interested in programming and next week I would be inerested in philosophy. But if you do that, gleaning from here and there, you will never really do anything worth anything, you'll just be going from one idea to the next in an infinite loop. Because, nowadays, information is truly infinite, there is so much of it that I don't think anyone could go through it in a lifetime. So what I'm thinking is, should I ignore all other ideas and pick an idea and stick to it, or should I go around wandering reciting other people's ideas. There, of course, has to be that golden balance, where you are not ignorant of other ideas and think your idea is the best one, and not giving up on it and picking up someone else's, which is very hard for me.

 

[Kookamoor]

I think that you're facing a dilemma common to many, Ecks. There's so much to know and you can't possibly learn it all. Who was it who said, "To be ...., you must first admit you know nothing". (I know someone here will be able to finish that quotation for me!)

I think the question you really need to answer is do you want to know a lot about one thing, or a little about a lot of things. I know that I am the latter. Being an expert would be a wonderful thing, but I cannot exclude all my other interests in order to become this.

I think the best thing that one can do when faced with so much information is to talk about it. Find someone with the same interest and discuss what you have read and what you are finding out. You will find that your opinion and your own ideas will come through in this way. If you find you are just regurgitating information and someone else's ideas step back ad question whether this is because you have not opened yourself up to enough opinions, or because you really do believe along the same lines as a particular respected author.

 

[ecks]

I think the question you really need to answer is do you want to know a lot about one thing, or a little about a lot of things.

Well, the thing that I have begun to notice in many so-called "great" people is their intense determination and blind ambition. If you look at Lenin, all he thought about was communism, if you look at Bill Gates, all he did was learn about computers when he was little. If you look at Napolean, he had blind ambition, but he is known unlike other people that listened to everyone around them. Look at the Bush-Kerry dilemma: people like Bush because he's decisive, notwithstanding other people's criticism, and Kerry they call a flip-flopper. And isn't that our desire in life, to be known for something?

I think the best thing that one can do when faced with so much information is to talk about it.

Yes, that is why I joined this forum!

 

[jenn]

You can't, but you can eliminate a lot of possibilites. It's a matter of how much you know about yourself. If you are interested in one subject, and you feel drawn to it, why know something which doesn't concern you.

Yes, but how much stuff can you learn so for every possibility, to know something about it. The brain too, it refuses to learn something which it thinks won't be used again. Would you ever learn a new language, just for the hell of it, because there's a possibility that in the distant future that you might be able to utilize it? Your will and brain will have to know that this is useful for something, otherwise you won't be able to memorize anything. And hay82, you might be right that in the begining there needs to be some kind of introduction to everything, to know what your interests are. However, once you pick a field and focus on it, why care about anything else except than the bare necessities. Since, if you take away your attention from one thing and start focusing on another, you are essentially diminishing from the essential field.

please don't be offended by this, but if you truly believe what you are saying you must be very dull to talk to.
that is offensive sorry. i guess i just don't really understand your dilema. it is natural to change opinions and hobbies and interests. are you feeling pressured because you feel you have to choose a career path or school and then it will be ok , i picked archeology this is it? if you feel that pressure to choose, then don't. do something else. travel, work, volunteer, do something. but deciding to limit yourself to one area of interest because knowing everything is impossible, well it's very defeatist of you. it's kind of like saying i will no longer use the dictionary as how can i possibly know all the words.

 

[Kookamoor]

Look at the Bush-Kerry dilemma: people like Bush because he's decisive, notwithstanding other people's criticism, and Kerry they call a flip-flopper. And isn't that our desire in life, to be known for something?

Yes, that is why I joined this forum!

Glad to chat with you about this - I think it's an interesting issue.

My desire in life is not to be famous to the greater populace at all. I can't think of anything worse than having paparazi in my face and not being able to go to my favorite coffee shop and read without people staring at me or looking for autographs.

But as for being known for something, yes, I guess that's what we all want. But on different scales. I want to be known by my friends and family as a loving, caring person who is a good listener and who is fun to be around and has interesting ideas. I'm definately a "little about a lot of things" person.

There is certainly a need in this world for experts, but not every person can be one. I struggle for many years to find out what I was "passionate" about. I still haven't found it. I'm realising more and more that I enjoy and care about a lot of things and that I can't be pinned down to one thing. There is no defining activity or research field in which I could spend a billion years and be happy. It's just the way I am. I admire people who can do this, but I would eek out a very sad and sorry existence if I had to concentrate on only one thing.

To skirt on the edges of politics, I must firstly state that I do not approve of Bush's foreign policy. I think he needs to look at things more globally, rather than from and America-centric perspective. That being said, his viewpoint is one that a lot of American people agree with, and from that perspective, he is a smart politician. The fact that the media called Kerry a 'flip-flopper' was also a political tactic. It came about because he changed his mind when he learnt all the facts. Apparently this is taboo in politics. One is supposed to stick to one's guns about a particular issue no matter what new information presents itself.

Personally, I'm happier with keeping an open mind and weighing up all the information. If we did not we'd still be stoning people for saying the world was flat.

 

[jenn]

kookamoor, well said. i second that.

 

[Kookamoor]

are you feeling pressured because you feel you have to choose a career path or school and then it will be ok , i picked archeology this is it? if you feel that pressure to choose, then don't.

I thought originally that this might be where the question was coming from. When I was 19 (you're around there, right, ecks?) I thought the school and degree program I chose were the be-all and end-all. I realised pretty soon how easy it was to change your mind. The best thing to do is choose what you think will interest you and follow the things that you find interesting. If this leads away from what you thought you wanted to do, it can be scary, but if it makes you happy, why be scared?

Let me give you an example from first hand experience. A first year biology student wants to become a doctor. So they spend 4 years concentrating on getting good grades, studying only what needs to be learnt and excluding everything else. They graduate and get accepted to med school.

Another first year biology student comes in wanting to be a doctor. This person takes the same courses, and find them really interesting and asks questions to learn more, not just to get better grades. They find plant sciences more interesting than human anatomy and take botany courses in their final year. They graduate and start a post-graduate degree in botany.

Who's better off? Society would say it's the med student - high profile degree, well paying career just around the corner. But who is following their passion? It's hard to say with the med student. They just concentrated on getting the best grades possible. The botanist is doing something they love.

 

[ecks]

Yes, that is precisely what i've been thinking lately. Because the thing is, I'm at my senior year in high school. Well, I got accepted into college with a computer science major. However, once I get to college, I am not sure if I could sustain my interest, since I know it is very analytical and math-oriented. And I am interested in math and CS, but then again now when I should be preparing for college, I am reading books that are irrelevant to what I am going to study. And it is this wilful ignorance that I am trying to impose on myself, because I know that if I become interested in something else, I will not be able to focus on my major.

Now let me give you another dilemma about my sister. She is pursuing classical dance, and that she considers her passion. However, my parents think of her as a fool who's only wasting her time instead of focusing on realistic goals. My sister has a very low percentage of actually having a career off dancing, but she still spends all her money on it. She drives forward without listening to my parents. The same is the case with the botanist student, maybe not in such an extreme case. They're both pursuing their intuition, not caring what others think of them. So are they justified in ignoring other people's advice?

 

[Kookamoor]

Hmm... It's an interesting question. But the thing is that she's happy now, right? When you think about it, college is just 4 years of your life - such a small amount. When you look back in 30 years will you still be wondering 'what if...' ?

I think if your sister enjoys it she should pursue it. But where is the money coming from to pay for it? If it's coming from your folks, I can understand their annoyance, as when is she ever going to earn her own money? But if she's got a job and is earning money to support her passion, what's wrong with this? It's unlikely to get her a big house on the hill, but if she's enjoying herself and is self sufficient... Plus, she could always teach, right? There's a good application of her passion. What about becoming a school teacher and having dance as one of her teachables? Or setting up a private dance school? There's many ways to have a passion and still be financially successful.

In terms of your computer science degree, I'm not sure what country you're in, but many school offer a double major or combined degrees. This gives you a chance to do study a number of things you like. Also remember that just because you study one thing it doesn't mean you have to do that to the exclusion of all else. You can read up on Lenon in your leasure time, or get involved in clubs and societies where you can learn new things and meet people at the same time.

I started out doing a double degree in engineering and arts, majoring in archaeology in the latter. I thought this was going to be my passion... turns out that I couldn't stand to write the essays required. The reading was all well and good, but writing those darned essays - ug! I just wanted to learn. I dropped my arts degree at the end of my first year and picked up a science degree instead. I graduated with engineering and science, the latter majoring in geology, which I love.

Take another girl I know who did a 4 year engineering degree, and went to work... and later decided to become a high school teacher instead.

Go to college to find out who YOU are. Not who you think you are, or who your parents want you to be. Just follow what you enjoy. There's a certain need for realism in that you do want to make sure you have a job at the end, but you can have more than one interest.

In fact, if what you are interested in is different to your degree you may find this helps. When people go to work in a 9 - 5 job, they come home and switch off from their job (or they should ). Being a student it's very hard to do this. But if your interests outside of school are different to those of your degree program you can 'switch off' when you need to to stop yourself getting burnt out. This would be a very good idea.