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Is there a God?

I disagree, Jaybe.

It's not a pointless question as long as people who believe in gods attempt to rule the lives of those who believe in different gods or none at all.

It's not a pointless question as long as people murder doctors because their god doesn't like what those doctors do, or fly planes into buildings and kill thousands because their god told them to, or hand out leaflets in a city offering a financial reward to anyone who "kills a sodomite".

As long as women are effectively sentenced to death because they are not allowed even a theraputic abortion or are denied education and opportunities and the right to form the friendships that they want because of what some bunch of males believe their sky pixie tells them, then it's far, far, far from a pointless question.

As long as people are lied to about the safety of condoms by a religious group that justifies its lies on the basis of their religion, or as long as politicians veto scientific research that could save the lives or ease the pain of hundreds of thousands of people on religious rather than scientific grounds, or as long as people have their homes stolen from them and are then persecuted on the basis of some ancient religious book, or as long as governments think that they can murder people for having the 'wrong' sexuality, or as long as supposed educational establishments teach religious myths on the same level as science, then it is not a pointless question.

And I repeat – there is not one single shred of evidence to support the idea of a god, as represented by any religion on Earth.

Not a single, solitary shred of evidence.
 
you are talking about the churches.If god exist i don't think he cares about condoms or abortion.
The thing his each time a great idea or belief have people to represent it,they usualy abuse the power given to them.
Is power the seed of all evils?
 
saliotthomas said:
The thing his each time a great idea or belief have people to represent it,they usualy abuse the power given to them.
Is power the seed of all evils?
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Do people abuse power because "god" tells them to, or do they invoke "god" to justify their abuse of power?

I think it can go either way or both ways. Never underestimate the ability to find a reason for what you want to do.
 
Sybarite, I understand what you're talking about. I grew up Mormon, and believe me, the rules were just as strict. I don't believe that our experiences are what the vast majority of people have experienced. Do some groups encourage self-loathing and retarding of the intellect? Better believe it. However, there are plenty of other sects where true faith is being lived and practiced every day. I have looked into various humanist and atheist groups both in person and online. What I discovered was that those groups can be just as rigid and uncompromising as the most oppressive rural backwoods preacher. They do not offer a vision for the future, let alone a workable way to live one's life. They are a distinct minority as their only hope is to piggy-back off of Christianity. At some point, you do have to accept that you can't know everything and most of the young folks I have met have yet to reach that point, though they will when they graduate or when their personal shibboleths are shed when they are 30 and working for "the man."
 
SFG75 said:
Sybarite, I understand what you're talking about. I grew up Mormon, and believe me, the rules were just as strict. I don't believe that our experiences are what the vast majority of people have experienced. Do some groups encourage self-loathing and retarding of the intellect? Better believe it. However, there are plenty of other sects where true faith is being lived and practiced every day. I have looked into various humanist and atheist groups both in person and online. What I discovered was that those groups can be just as rigid and uncompromising as the most oppressive rural backwoods preacher. They do not offer a vision for the future, let alone a workable way to live one's life. They are a distinct minority as their only hope is to piggy-back off of Christianity. At some point, you do have to accept that you can't know everything and most of the young folks I have met have yet to reach that point, though they will when they graduate or when their personal shibboleths are shed when they are 30 and working for "the man."
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I'm amused by your use of the phrase "true faith". You can disagree until the cows come home with other religious people that you personally think are too fundamentalist or too liberal or just wrong in their interpretations of any religion, but to baldly imply that theirs is not "true faith" is arrogant beyond belief – although entirely characteristic of many religious people, who are, of course, utterly convinced that they're right and everyone else who is a bit different and thinks a bit differently and worships a bit differently is wrong (in varying degrees, perhaps) and on the way to hell.

At 45, SGF, I am way beyond the point of being one of the "young folks".

No, of course I don't know everything – not remotely. But I do know that there is not one single, solitary shred of evidence to support the existence of a god, as described by any one of the religions that exist on Earth or ever have existed on Earth. And you continue to duck around this issue, knowing, I suspect, that you cannot offer a single solitary shred of evidence either.

I don't know about any of the groups that you mention – personally, of the atheists that I know, none of them seem to need to join any sort of club over the issue. And they "piggy back off Christianity"? Really? How? Does that also work for atheists from a Muslim or Jewish or Hindu or animist background – that they decide that they're an atheist and then join a club that basically has Christianity at it's core? I tell you what ... Christian leaders should take up that idea; it could be a great way to 'save souls' amongst those who would otherwise be lost.

A "vision of the future"; "a workable way to live one's life"?

We give our own lives meaning – if some people decide that they cannot give their life meaning without believing in one of a vast array of conflicting myths, then that's up to them. But it is a choice.

Others find things in their lives that give them meaning without having to believe in some myth or other. People find meaning in their families and friends, in their work, in art, in helping others – in many, many things. In life itself, in all its variety and richness.

The implied suggestion that meaning in life only comes from believing in some myth or other is nonsense – or perhaps it's just the wishful thinking of those who actually, in spite of all they claim, want some sort of affirmation that their beliefs aren't just a waste of time and energy.
 
I'm amused by your use of the phrase "true faith".
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The well meaning and sincere belief of a Buddhist monk or tender service ethic of a Catholic teacher is different than say, the devotion of a David Koresh or Jim Jones. Is there not a difference in any way?


At 45, SGF, I am way beyond the point of being one of the "young folks".
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I should have clarified, the "young folks" are a secular humanists group that meets at a nearby university.

No, of course I don't know everything – not remotely. But I do know that there is not one single, solitary shred of evidence to support the existence of a god, as described by any one of the religions that exist on Earth or ever have existed on Earth. And you continue to duck around this issue, knowing, I suspect, that you cannot offer a single solitary shred of evidence either.
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Maybe not a Christian god or the like, but a formless, timeless, universal consciousness? I do believe that we have seen the presence of such a thing through eastern studies, Jungian psychoanalysis, not to mention practices such as meditation and yoga. Like I said, the door is still open, only due to the likes of Jung and Ken Wilber in my mind.

We give our own lives meaning – if some people decide that they cannot give their life meaning without believing in one of a vast array of conflicting myths, then that's up to them. But it is a choice.
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I really like this comment of yours, existential in origin no doubt, but very valid.


The implied suggestion that meaning in life only comes from believing in some myth or other is nonsense – or perhaps it's just the wishful thinking of those who actually, in spite of all they claim, want some sort of affirmation that their beliefs aren't just a waste of time and energy.
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On this, I do believe we agree. No one likes to think that this is just IT and such a prospect scares the daylights out of people. At the same time, there are spiritually curious people who investigate such things not out of a macabre concern for death.
 
SFG75 said:
The well meaning and sincere belief of a Buddhist monk or tender service ethic of a Catholic teacher is different than say, the devotion of a David Koresh or Jim Jones. Is there not a difference in any way?
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What is that difference in terms of how "true" the faith is? Or are you arguing that faiths you consider beneficial to the world are somehow "truer" than faiths you personally dislike? Is the faith of a suicide bomber less true than that of a kindly old vicar?

And I'd also be interested in knowing which these "humanist and atheist groups piggybacking off christianity" are, and in what way they do that.
 
I’ve come to the conclusion that there is no god and I’m comfortable with that.

Funny thing is I'm still honest and ethical.

I’ve lived my whole life believing that there was a god, but as I grew older I was asking tougher and tougher questions. Now, I don’t even believe the merits of any organized religion, justifies the religion itself. Good people are generally good, the bad ones are not.
 
chris302116;247079 Non-believers are constantly questioning whether there is a God or not said:
are[/B] happy and content not to believe in God but they are not content that believers, believe, and so they constantly question and sometimes ridicule, using science as a sort of verification that until it can be proved there is a God then God can't exist.
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Just not nearly as much as the believers do to the non-believers. That is what proselytical religions do.
 
SFG75 said:
I will admit that at this point in time in my life, the jury is still out. I haven't closed the door on faith and quite frankly, I'm beginning more and more to believe that there is a God. It has been my experience that most secular humanist/atheist/agnostic groups are parasitic riders of christianity. It's one thing to be a coherent sense of belief or ethical values, it's another when your group identity is attached to what you are not, as opposed to what you promise people. That is the main problem that I have with the secular viewpoints of the world today. They are absolutely incapable of standing on their own without referencing christianity.
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Do you mean to say that secularists in non-Christian countries are referencing Christianity?
 
This is the year I tackle the bible (New and Old Testament). I’m starting the Old Testament this week. I can’t wait for the first Jehovah’s to come to my door when I’m done. I might even invite them in.
 
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