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Just Punishment? Or is there no answer for this?

Jenem said:
i've been thinking a lot lately about punishment, the system, rehabilitation and the death penalty. one thing i've come to realize is that some people just need killing.
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I think there already is, and has been, plenty enough killing and torturing going on already on this planet.

What I'm asking you to think about is this -- is that the solution, or is it the problem?
 
How does putting some of the planets most despicable, vile, and evil people to death add to the problem?

If this guy preyed on even 10% of what he has records of, thats 3,600 children who have suffered, and are suffering for the rest of their lives.

Surely there is no punishment that is too harsh, and too inhumane for a piece of human waste and trash as this guy. Why should anybody have any compasion for this guy? Where and/or how would that benefit society?
 
Let's imagine that just one of these thousands of children has been so badly traumatized by the experience that he grows up to be a molester?

What if it is your son who is molested, and who then grows up to be the molester? What then?

I guess I'm just more into prevention than I'm into revenge.
 
StillILearn said:
I guess I'm just more into prevention than I'm into revenge.
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The best prevention would have been to keep this guy in prison for life sometime around about the first, or second, or third....time he was caught, tried, and found gulity of sexual abuse of children....

Since there is no death penalty for what he's done, I don't think you have much to worry about in terms of vigalante (sp?) revenge. It's not so much about revenge either. It's about what is justifyable punishment for this type of criminal? That's what started this thread.

How do you prevent this type of thing from happening on a repeated basis? On some level the punishment for such behavior could be a deterent couldn't it? Life in prison with no chance of parole, and no special protection form the general prison population?

There's a lawyer who this guy confessed to many many years, and many many children ago. The now ex-lawyer knew this guy was A THREAT.
 
Your questions are good ones, Motokid. I'll continue reading this thread with interest.

I guess the last thing I have to say on the matter is this:

"When fighting monsters, one must be careful not to become one."
 
StillILearn said:
I think there already is, and has been, plenty enough killing and torturing going on already on this planet.

What I'm asking you to think about is this -- is that the solution, or is it the problem?
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i think about it plenty. in this case, it is the solution. i am not talking about torturing, or revenge. i am talking about the swift removal of him from this planet. i don't feel this guy is worth punishing.

StillILearn said:
"When fighting monsters, one must be careful not to become one."
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"it's a dirty job, but someone has to do it."
 
It has been proven many times that capital punishment does not act as a deterrant. Many criminals tend to be of the belief they will not be caught & therefore they don't have to worry about the punishment.

Another point is it costs more to keep a defendant on death row then just have them in prison for the rest of their lives due to legal costs.

Back to Motokid's question though, unfortunately I don't think there is anything at present which would work as a deterrent & I truly wish there was. Hopefully research into what makes paedophiles tick will help there to one day be an effective treatment so they can be rehabilitated.

I also think StillILearn has some very strong points on the subject.
 
"It has been proven many times that capital punishment does not act as a deterrant"

While this may be true (who knows how many murders have not been commited because somebody thought about the possibility of the death sentence), there's one thing that can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt....

When a convicted fellon is put to death, that particualr fellon can no long commit any crimes, or influence other criminals, or in any way, hurt another living being for all eternity. That we know for sure....
 
Whilst you cannot find out the statistics for how many people the death sentence did deter, you can compare statistics for crimes between states selecting some which do & some which don't use capital punishment. You can also carry out research on those who have been caught as to why they still comitted the crime even if they knew their lives were at risk.

Whilst someone who has been executed cannot personally harm anyone else, they become famous from such cases & sickeningly enough can develop a fan base. Some people (admittedly not paedophiles) do confess that the only reason they committed their crime was to become famous. Copycats do not care if the person they are emulating have already been executed, it still doesn't stop them from doing exactly the same.

btw - I do think you have some really interesting points Moto, I just like seeing things from all perspectives.
 
Sar said:
btw - I do think you have some really interesting points Moto, I just like seeing things from all perspectives.
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That's why I start these threads. I'm not arguing with you or being combative. I dig the opposing opinion. Keep it coming.... :D
 
Charles Manson was not executed and he's got quite a fan base and become quite the "famous" person. Same with Osama Bin Laden right now. Will Sadam Huessein (spelling?) be any more or any less famous if he's put to death or left to rot in prison?


Jeffery Dahmer (spelling?) was not executed by the state either but I'm sure students and people all over will read about and study him for years to come.
 
Motokid said:
That's why I start these threads. I'm not arguing with you or being combative. I dig the opposing opinion. Keep it coming.... :D
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I can tell by the questions you ask & some of the points you raise, I really enjoy reading your threads as they do challenge people's ways of thinking without being insulting or inflamatory(sp?).
 
Sar said:
Whilst someone who has been executed cannot personally harm anyone else, they become famous from such cases & sickeningly enough can develop a fan base. Some people (admittedly not paedophiles) do confess that the only reason they committed their crime was to become famous. Copycats do not care if the person they are emulating have already been executed, it still doesn't stop them from doing exactly the same.
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so this guy should be allowed to live because he might be made famous in his death, or develop a fan base?
 
Sar said:
I can tell by the questions you ask & some of the points you raise, I really enjoy reading your threads as they do challenge people's ways of thinking without being insulting or inflamatory(sp?).
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Thanks, not everything about me and my threads causes problems and issues...but if I ever piss you off there's a specific thread for you to vent you anger and frustration...let me know and I'll point it out to you sometime... :D :D :D
 
Jenem said:
so this guy should be allowed to live because he might be made famous in his death, or develop a fan base?
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From a personal perspective, I would say this person should be allowed to live so he can spend the rest of his days in fear of fellow prioners retaliating. That way, it would go some tiny way towards letting him know what it was like for his victims.

From a more objective standpoint, the media should be alot more careful about how it covers crimes. Papers are interested in sales figures & nothing much else, they don't do it for any noble reason, such as feeling the public deserve to know the truth. For that reason, it's important to remember papers do tend to sensationalize things & will nearly always have some sort of bias too. I'm not saying that papers shouldn't keep us informed of crimes which have been committed, but that they should be alot more careful of how they cover them.
 
Motokid said:
There's a lawyer who this guy confessed to many many years, and many many children ago. The now ex-lawyer knew this guy was A THREAT.
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The thing is, the lawyer couldn't say anything about it. That lawyer worked with the guy in the 70's. Child abuse reporting laws were only starting to appear then, and they generally only dealt with physicians and other medical providers. Even now, confidentiality is protected in most states. The only reason he's even talking now is because he's been disbarred.
 
"From a personal perspective, I would say this person should be allowed to live so he can spend the rest of his days in fear of fellow prioners retaliating. That way, it would go some tiny way towards letting him know what it was like for his victims."

The problem with this is, if you read the story I posted earlier, this guy makes many friends in prison because he's so smart. He helps them with lawsuits and other legal issues the other prisoners might have. He could give tips and pointers to other fellons on how to avoid certain things and keep from getting caught. He could teach other sexual deviants how to "increase" their odds of catching children and how to avoid registering on the sex offends lists....

Technically this guy could "teach" his craft to other inmates. 36,000 is a huge number. he's obviously very very smart with how he operates. Do you want him being able to pass along information to other inmates that will be paroled?
 
I'm not sure about the american system (I have been assuming it is the same), but I know here in England people imprisoned due to sex crimes are kept seperate from other prisoners as they know paedophiles & rapists get horrendously abused otherwise. If it is the same in the US, then the friends he has been making so far will naturally be more sympathetic towards him, they know they are all in the same boat & therefore wouldn't feel the disgust for him that would cause retaliation.

I totally agree that he shouldn't be able to pass on information to other prisoners. The logical, inhumane part of me thinks that until there is a way to rehabilitate paedophiles they shouldn't be allowed out & about mixing with the public at all, which would mean that such a thing wouldn't be a problem.

Justice & rehabilitation is something which is always impossible for me to find a resolution that is even remotely satisfactory, as for every system which seems effective there are so many bad points about it. I think that's part of the reason I am interested in both psychology & forensics, I'm interested in working on preventing criminal behaviours from arising in the first place.
 
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