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Kurt Vonnegut: Slaughterhouse-Five
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Martin
Active Member
My review:
Besided being one of the most respected American satirists of the century, Kurt Vonnegut also had the dubious privilige to personally witness a 20th Century apocalyps; the firebombing of Dresden, which killed 130.000 people. Ever since he started as a writer, he has tried to write a novel with this personal drama as a central event, and it took him 24 years to do it.
Billy Pilgrim, ''tall and weak, and shaped like a bottle of Coca-Cola,'' was born in Ilium, N.Y., the only child of a barber there. After graduating from Ilium High School, he attended night sessions at the Ilium School of Optometry for one semester before being drafted for military service in World War II. He served with the infantry in Europe, and was taken prisoner by the Germans. He was in Dresden when it was firebombed. In 1968, Billy was the sole survivor of a plane crash on top of Sugarbush Mountain in Vermont. While he was recovering in the hospital, Valencia (his wife) was killed in a carbon-monoxide accident. On Feb. 13, 1976, Billy was assassinated by a nut with a high- powered laser gun.
If you think this all sounds a bit run-of-the-mill, albeit a bit violent, you're right. That's because I have omitted one tiny fact, a fact which could, in the eyes of a potential reader, immediately and wrongfully reduce this work of literary art into mere Science-Fiction. I hope it doesn't. Billy Pilgrim has this condition; he is "unstuck in time". This means that at any second of his life, he can suddenly be at... well, any OTHER second of his life. He jumps forward and backwards in time, alternating between several major events in his life. Because of this gimmick, Vonnegut is not restricted to linear storytelling, he's free from the strictures of chronology.
Billy claims to have become "unstuck in time" with the help of small green aliens, which abducted him at some point. He claims that they taught him that humans can't see time, that moments aren't finite, that all moments in the past, the present and the future always exist, that death is just an unpleasant moment.
The story of Billy is not about time travel and aliens per se but about his attempts to cope with the horrors he witnessed in Dresden. It is a brilliant mix of historical fact and imaginative fiction, with a touch of science fiction and a lot of black humor. After reading it, you will have a different picture of what a war is like and what it can do. Vonnegut proves his worth as a satirist, and his important message comes across loud and clear. Read this. Please.
Cheers
Besided being one of the most respected American satirists of the century, Kurt Vonnegut also had the dubious privilige to personally witness a 20th Century apocalyps; the firebombing of Dresden, which killed 130.000 people. Ever since he started as a writer, he has tried to write a novel with this personal drama as a central event, and it took him 24 years to do it.
Billy Pilgrim, ''tall and weak, and shaped like a bottle of Coca-Cola,'' was born in Ilium, N.Y., the only child of a barber there. After graduating from Ilium High School, he attended night sessions at the Ilium School of Optometry for one semester before being drafted for military service in World War II. He served with the infantry in Europe, and was taken prisoner by the Germans. He was in Dresden when it was firebombed. In 1968, Billy was the sole survivor of a plane crash on top of Sugarbush Mountain in Vermont. While he was recovering in the hospital, Valencia (his wife) was killed in a carbon-monoxide accident. On Feb. 13, 1976, Billy was assassinated by a nut with a high- powered laser gun.
If you think this all sounds a bit run-of-the-mill, albeit a bit violent, you're right. That's because I have omitted one tiny fact, a fact which could, in the eyes of a potential reader, immediately and wrongfully reduce this work of literary art into mere Science-Fiction. I hope it doesn't. Billy Pilgrim has this condition; he is "unstuck in time". This means that at any second of his life, he can suddenly be at... well, any OTHER second of his life. He jumps forward and backwards in time, alternating between several major events in his life. Because of this gimmick, Vonnegut is not restricted to linear storytelling, he's free from the strictures of chronology.
Billy claims to have become "unstuck in time" with the help of small green aliens, which abducted him at some point. He claims that they taught him that humans can't see time, that moments aren't finite, that all moments in the past, the present and the future always exist, that death is just an unpleasant moment.
The story of Billy is not about time travel and aliens per se but about his attempts to cope with the horrors he witnessed in Dresden. It is a brilliant mix of historical fact and imaginative fiction, with a touch of science fiction and a lot of black humor. After reading it, you will have a different picture of what a war is like and what it can do. Vonnegut proves his worth as a satirist, and his important message comes across loud and clear. Read this. Please.
Cheers
RhinoRosie
New Member
I am fairly familiar with Vonnegut, and I think like most people I quite like Slaugtherhouse-5 . But I really think it is more of a mixture of his other novels and stories than really a standalone book in itself. I know a lot of high school Lit. teachers have students read this book, and I think it should be more of a treat for Vonnegut lovers than an introduction to his body of work. Just wondering if anyone else shares my thoughts on this.
Vinsecula
New Member
Slaughterhouse-Five was the first Vonnegut novel I read, and I completely fell in love with the book and author. Billy Pilgrim's quirk of being "unstuck from time" makes the storytelling rich and spontaneous.
I also really enjoyed the fact that nobody in the book (Tralfamadorians or Billy) try to defy fate, because moments are "structred" a certain way, it really gets down and dirty with the fact that humans are too caught up in their own $***, they just plain don't give a crap if they can change the world or not.
As for the narrative flow, the "unstuck from time" quirk allows surprises to come at various points in time. I believe one of the later chapters begins with: "This is how Billy Pilgrim lost his wife."
One of my favorite things about the story is how the narrator uses the phrase "so it goes" whenever a person dies, displaying mankind's callousness towards death, and to those who have died.
I s'pose that's all I have to say. Slaughterhouse-Five has become one of my favorite books, I'm really pleased it got picked for Book of the Month.
I also really enjoyed the fact that nobody in the book (Tralfamadorians or Billy) try to defy fate, because moments are "structred" a certain way, it really gets down and dirty with the fact that humans are too caught up in their own $***, they just plain don't give a crap if they can change the world or not.
As for the narrative flow, the "unstuck from time" quirk allows surprises to come at various points in time. I believe one of the later chapters begins with: "This is how Billy Pilgrim lost his wife."
One of my favorite things about the story is how the narrator uses the phrase "so it goes" whenever a person dies, displaying mankind's callousness towards death, and to those who have died.
I s'pose that's all I have to say. Slaughterhouse-Five has become one of my favorite books, I'm really pleased it got picked for Book of the Month.
The scene in which the aliens explain to Billy how the universe will/has ended is one of my all time favorites. I've just finished Cat's Cradle which I couldn't put down. It's an amazing and very absorbing novel. I think Vonnegut has the gift of making me laugh while I know I should be crying. His sarcasm is beyond biting because it's so harshly true. I can't wait till I start reading Timequake. Though I understand why Slaughterhouse 5 takes predecedence over Cat's Cradle in being his 'classic,' I think the latter will always be on my top five fav. books.
Wolhay
New Member
I recently read Slaughterhouse Five
Has anyone tried putting their pet dog or cat on a large mirror on the floor to see what their reaction was? Do they really make a giant jump for their life so they won't be sucked into the void of the mirror? Do they trust the person that dropped them on the mirror afterwards?
I don't believe in pets so I don't have any to experiment with.
Has anyone tried putting their pet dog or cat on a large mirror on the floor to see what their reaction was? Do they really make a giant jump for their life so they won't be sucked into the void of the mirror? Do they trust the person that dropped them on the mirror afterwards?
I don't believe in pets so I don't have any to experiment with.
Martin
Active Member
The most interesting thing in that post is this:
I've never tried it, but I can imagine that they, especially cats, which are pretty agile, would make a jump for it. They can't recognise their own reflection, so what they are seeing at that point is pretty weird indeed - another cat, upside down. They'd make a run for it, I'm sure.
Cheers
I've never tried it, but I can imagine that they, especially cats, which are pretty agile, would make a jump for it. They can't recognise their own reflection, so what they are seeing at that point is pretty weird indeed - another cat, upside down. They'd make a run for it, I'm sure.
Cheers
Motokid
New Member
"I don't believe in pets"
yes, please explain this....do you just mean that you don't care to own a pet, or do you really mean you don't believe in them? Are you thinking it's wrong for people to "own" an animal?
I am really interested in what exactly you mean by this statement.
yes, please explain this....do you just mean that you don't care to own a pet, or do you really mean you don't believe in them? Are you thinking it's wrong for people to "own" an animal?
I am really interested in what exactly you mean by this statement.
Krys
Member
Wolhay said:
I will have to try this with my cats.
I have one vain kitty who loves to look at herself in the mirror, and the others are very curious about their reflections. They often stand in front of the mirror and touch it with their paws.
I'll experiment with it this evening and see what happens.
Wolhay
New Member
I don't think that it's in the animals’ best interest to keep them as pets since they won't live in a natural environment. Pets in cities especially, where dogs only are taken for walks in the parks a couple of times a day and cats and other small furry animals are castrated to change their behaviour. For pets without partners the alternative to not castrate is probably even worse.
Krys, I'm looking forwards to hearing about the results.
Krys, I'm looking forwards to hearing about the results.
Motokid
New Member
I kind of thought that's what you meant. Maybe you made mention of this in another thread, maybe not, but I'd have to then ask, in your opinion what is in the best interest of the millions and millions of pets that currently exist in the world, and where would the natural environment of a Bassett Hound be, or a Dachsound (spelling) or a Poodle?
I can't express the joy and comfort our dog brings to our family. She trembles with happiness when we come home, and all we have to do is look at her most of the time and her tail starts wagging. This is a dog that was rescued off of a major interstate highway by one of my neighbors. She was running loose, and fending for herself for who knows how long. The fact that she survived the interstate is amazing, and now that my family took her in she's got a warm, safe, dry place to sleep. She gets regular meals and veterinary care. She gets baths, and bones to chew. She gets treats. And mostly, she gets undenying love from 4 people who think she's the coolest damn dog on the planet. She has had opportunties to run away. I let her off her leash frequently. She never leaves. She knows she's got nowhere better to go. She's got it made right where she is. I know she knows this.
Now I'm sure you'll say, "That's fine for you, but I just don't believe in having pets." but I'm wondering how you came about this thought? Have you never had a pet, or have you had really bad experiences with them, or witnessed bad things happening to pets? Yes there are plenty of pets that are mistreated, but there are plenty of humans that are mistreated too.
I can't express the joy and comfort our dog brings to our family. She trembles with happiness when we come home, and all we have to do is look at her most of the time and her tail starts wagging. This is a dog that was rescued off of a major interstate highway by one of my neighbors. She was running loose, and fending for herself for who knows how long. The fact that she survived the interstate is amazing, and now that my family took her in she's got a warm, safe, dry place to sleep. She gets regular meals and veterinary care. She gets baths, and bones to chew. She gets treats. And mostly, she gets undenying love from 4 people who think she's the coolest damn dog on the planet. She has had opportunties to run away. I let her off her leash frequently. She never leaves. She knows she's got nowhere better to go. She's got it made right where she is. I know she knows this.
Now I'm sure you'll say, "That's fine for you, but I just don't believe in having pets." but I'm wondering how you came about this thought? Have you never had a pet, or have you had really bad experiences with them, or witnessed bad things happening to pets? Yes there are plenty of pets that are mistreated, but there are plenty of humans that are mistreated too.
mehastings
Active Member
Wolhay said:
My dog weighs nine pounds. Her place on the food chain is just above toads, mice and roadkill. I think she would probably agree that it is absolutely in her best interest to live in my house with a door between her and the coyotes.
Although people do spay and neuter to change temperment, I think that really isn't the biggest reason (least not in America). Responsible pet owners have their pets "fixed" to keep the quantity of unwanted strays to a minimum.
RitalinKid
New Member
There's another great quote about mirrors in Breakfast of Champions by Vonnegut. The fictitious author Kilgore Trout refers to mirrors as "leaks", and the phrase "taking a leak", which is a common term in the US for urinating, is used to refer to the act of stealing a mirror. If that sounds crazy, go read the book, and you'll appreciate it more.
On not believing in things....
I was told by a coworker yesterday that he didn't believe in racism. We were dumbstruck for a second until he told us he believes racism is just another name for hate.
Wolhay, don't forget to go to the Kurt Vonnegut Thread, and let us know what you thought about SH5.
On not believing in things....
I was told by a coworker yesterday that he didn't believe in racism. We were dumbstruck for a second until he told us he believes racism is just another name for hate.
Wolhay, don't forget to go to the Kurt Vonnegut Thread, and let us know what you thought about SH5.
Wolhay
New Member
The natural environment for dachshunds could be Schwarzwald or the entire dog population could be put in forests where wolves roam free. I think that at least some species of wolves are close to extinction so the dogs would probably be of help either as breeders or food.
But I don't think that the present pets is an important issue. If they're not in the nature then they're probably not vital for the ecology. A more interesting issue should be whether or not pets should be continue to be bred just to please humans.
Most dogs are probably happy with their owners. I've read that some slaves have been happy with their owners and haven't had any real desire to be free since it would have made it harder to survive. Sometimes being owned is considered a good thing by the owned.
I've never had pets with fur. Parents haven't been thrilled about animals but the main reason was that a sibling supposedly risked to develop allergy. But I've still spent time with a lot of animals and I would like to have cats. They would be my pet of preference since you can't buy their affection with discipline and food as easily as with other animals. But now I wouldn't have the heart to castrate them and locking them into an apartment. Instead I'm thinking of becoming a volunteer at a cat shelter so that I can spend time with cats without becoming a cat owner.
But I don't think that the present pets is an important issue. If they're not in the nature then they're probably not vital for the ecology. A more interesting issue should be whether or not pets should be continue to be bred just to please humans.
Most dogs are probably happy with their owners. I've read that some slaves have been happy with their owners and haven't had any real desire to be free since it would have made it harder to survive. Sometimes being owned is considered a good thing by the owned.
I've never had pets with fur. Parents haven't been thrilled about animals but the main reason was that a sibling supposedly risked to develop allergy. But I've still spent time with a lot of animals and I would like to have cats. They would be my pet of preference since you can't buy their affection with discipline and food as easily as with other animals. But now I wouldn't have the heart to castrate them and locking them into an apartment. Instead I'm thinking of becoming a volunteer at a cat shelter so that I can spend time with cats without becoming a cat owner.
I think a better question there Moto, would be should we allow IVF?
As it happens, I completely agree with Wolhay thus far, although we have always had dogs. (And I don't like cats.) Then again, keeping animals as pets has been going on for years, and is very much part of modern culture. Without it, we wouldn't have all these varieties of cats and dogs - white cats are often deaf - they'd have been wiped out long ago. However I know a girl who's just paid hundreds of Euros, and travelled through two countries to go and get a white cat with blue eyes. Madness.
As it happens, I completely agree with Wolhay thus far, although we have always had dogs. (And I don't like cats.) Then again, keeping animals as pets has been going on for years, and is very much part of modern culture. Without it, we wouldn't have all these varieties of cats and dogs - white cats are often deaf - they'd have been wiped out long ago. However I know a girl who's just paid hundreds of Euros, and travelled through two countries to go and get a white cat with blue eyes. Madness.
Kookamoor
New Member
Wolhay, if you do get some work in an animal shelter I will be interested to know if your opinions on castration change. I volunteered at a shelter for a while and there are certain things that I saw which made me very, very sad.
Putting dogs in the forest to breed with wolves... From a biological perspective this would genetically alter the wolf species if interbreeding began and perpetuated. But more concerning is the ecological damage it would do to increase the canine population in those areas and let them run free. Since you seem to think ecological order is important, this is somewhat contradictory. Also, given that you're concerned about the happiness of the dogs, do you think they'd be happier fighting for survival?
Finally, keeping a dog is not keeping a slave. Dogs have a pack mentality - adopting a dog is allowing it to become part of your pack. Hence, by keeping a dog and looking after it well, it will see itself as being accepted within the pack.
I don't believe in having a dog or a cat unless you have the space for them, and especially in the case of the former, the time to spend with them. Some old housemates insisted on getting a cat when we lived in a flat and then keeping it indoors because we lived so near the highway. While that was best for the animal's survival, it was very hard on the cat who was constantly frustrated with being indoors. Having said that, I will assuredly get a cat when I have space to let it roam and am not in proximity to large amounts of native wildlife that a cat views as delectable morsels.
Putting dogs in the forest to breed with wolves... From a biological perspective this would genetically alter the wolf species if interbreeding began and perpetuated. But more concerning is the ecological damage it would do to increase the canine population in those areas and let them run free. Since you seem to think ecological order is important, this is somewhat contradictory. Also, given that you're concerned about the happiness of the dogs, do you think they'd be happier fighting for survival?
Finally, keeping a dog is not keeping a slave. Dogs have a pack mentality - adopting a dog is allowing it to become part of your pack. Hence, by keeping a dog and looking after it well, it will see itself as being accepted within the pack.
I don't believe in having a dog or a cat unless you have the space for them, and especially in the case of the former, the time to spend with them. Some old housemates insisted on getting a cat when we lived in a flat and then keeping it indoors because we lived so near the highway. While that was best for the animal's survival, it was very hard on the cat who was constantly frustrated with being indoors. Having said that, I will assuredly get a cat when I have space to let it roam and am not in proximity to large amounts of native wildlife that a cat views as delectable morsels.