Margaret Atwood: The Blind Assassin

[Ell]

You're the one who compared Iris to all alcoholics. Do you see her as someone who needed to hit rock bottom before maturing? If so, why did she need to hit rock bottom and others don't.

I wasn't comparing her to all alcoholics. I was referring to you asking why she didn't grow a backbone earlier. My point being that inidividuals need to be at a certain point in their lives - emotionally and in life experience - before they can make certain types of tough decisions.

(Personally, I think Iris was just too weak to make a tough decision and paid the price. Which is fine. No one is perfect.) I'm just wondering why you think she didn't really have a choice? Nothing personal. Others share your opinion. No one else has explained what happened to her free will either. You're just the only one who's willing to talk about it with me.

At the age of twenty, Iris was hardly equipped to make good choices. She was naive and if you want to call her weak, I think that's also valid. Maybe we're arguing semantics. Yes, of course she had a 'choice', but I think the point I and others are trying to make is that given her experience, age and maturity, she made the choice expected of her. If she knew then, what the older Iris knew, I doubt she would have married Richard. At the time, I think she really thought she was making the right choice. And what I'm saying is that everything in her life up to that point would lead her to believe it was the right choice.

I don't know many twenty year-olds who haven't made bad choices.

 

[StillILearn]

This book is an interesting look at women 's perceived places in society. The Irises and the Winifreds and the Reenies all knew their places and stepped out of them only at their own risk back in the thirties and forties. The Callies were (and are) aberations, and Laura, I guess, would have to be the joker in the deck in any era. Maybe Laura would have been burned at the stake if she had been born at the right time.

 

[StillILearn]

Here's a link with a couple of long-ish audio interviews with Atwood. I've listened to part of one of them so far. She's funny!

Atwood interviews

 

[StillILearn]

I know we've had this discussion before, but why couldn't she have grown a backbone sooner? By rejecting Richard she would've saved the life of her sister and possibly her father.

DJ, women were not encouraged to grow backbones. And if (and when) they did, they were called bitches and ball-breakers.

 

[Ell]

DJ, women were not encouraged to grow backbones. And if (and when) they did, they were called bitches and ball-breakers.

So true. To some extent, they still are, aren't they.

She's funny!

Yes, she is. I've seen Atwood interviewed on TV and she has a very dry wit and doesn't take herself too seriously. I like that a lot. She's one of the very few authors I'd like to meet in person.

 

[angerball]

I didn't see this as being a wrong choice. I think she loved Alex, and had he come back from the war, she was at a point in her life where she might (I stress, 'might') have finally made a decision to leave Richard.

I mean it more as "morally wrong". (I didn't want to open up a can of worms by saying that having an affair was justified ). She did end up leaving him, after she found out what had happened to Laura - that was the "breaking" point for her; Alex seemed like a bit of a prat really, almost like he fulfilled a certain need, but there wasn't much love there. From what I recall, most of their conversations weren't much more than snippy little arguments.

I believe it had to do with the uproar the book caused when people speculated it was autobiographical.

Aaaah, that makes sense. I didn't think of that at all, and I just couldn't work it out.

I think Laura operated on a totally different wavelength. If you're asking whether she was involved with Alex sexually - I don't think so. For Laura, I see him as being another one of her causes and lost souls to save.

Yeah, I don't think she was involved in him sexually either. But I still can't work out why she was that attached to him, and why the discovery of his and Iris's affair drove (no pun intended ) her to suicide. I could understand if she loved him in the romantic way, but not if she just wanted to save him. I quite liked the character of Laura.....she had a very distinct personality. I don't know - she was very unusual, but not in a freakish way. She was so calm and controlled about everything, yet she's the one who lost it in the end.

I know we've had this discussion before, but why couldn't she have grown a backbone sooner? By rejecting Richard she would've saved the life of her sister and possibly her father.

I'd say it's because she was so young. When you're that young, I don't think you can see a year ahead, let alone a lifetime. She couldn't have possibly have forseen that her father and Laura would die because of what she did. She thought she was saving them. Mind you, what if she hadn't married Richard, and had married Alex instead? Would Laura have not driven herself off a cliff? (I still don't know if it was Alex's death or Alex's affair that made her kill herself. )

 

[angerball]

Here's a link with a couple of long-ish audio interviews with Atwood. I've listened to part of one of them so far. She's funny!

Atwood interviews

Hey, excellent! I'll be sure to listen to them. I've never heard or read a Margaret Atwood interview before.

 

[StillILearn]

She couldn't have possibly have forseen that her father and Laura would die because of what she did. She thought she was saving them. Mind you, what if she hadn't married Richard, and had married Alex instead? Would Laura have not driven herself off a cliff? (I still don't know if it was Alex's death or Alex's affair that made her kill herself.)

The father was going to self-destruct in any event, wasn't he? (I still don't think I know for sure what happened between Laura and Alex either. I think I'd have to reread this book a dozen times to figure out what happened in 'reality'.

So true. To some extent, they still are, aren't they.

You've got that right. Mrs Bush is our current version of 'the good wife'. Stand by your man. Nancy Reagan was a very good example of a 'good wife', too. But what about Hilary? Is she a good wife? (Just using national examples.) Jane Fonda is a Callie, for sure.

Ha! Marilyn Monroe was a Laura! What do you all think?

 

[Ell]

Ha! Marilyn Monroe was a Laura! What do you all think?

Yes, MM would be a Laura. I think Susan Sarandon would be a Callie.

 

[StillILearn]

Yes, MM would be a Laura. I think Susan Sarandon would be a Callie.

As soon as I get a chance, I'm going to go listen to the rest of those Atwood interviews. I llike her! She's funnier than I would have thought. Has more humor. Humour.

 

[Doug Johnson]

Surely you're not extrapolating the relationships of one female character in one book to all women?

Actually, I do consider the lead characters in a Margret Atwood novel to be symbolic of all women. (I received better marks in grade 10 English when I did that.) Since no one else has taken a stab at the symbolism of The Blind Assassin, here's my best attempt at a B+.

Society expects women to play certain roles: the good wife and the good mother. There are rewards for accepting those roles; the two most obvious being family and material things, which are represented by clothing in this novel. Iris admits that she likes the clothing and even the most ardent feminists can't deny the joys of motherhood. (Although it's never pure bliss: things go wrong and most people enjoy their grandkids more than their own children.)

On one level, these roles work out pretty well for men: Richard gets to sleep with pretty much whoever he wants and Dad gets his money. They do not, however, work out so well for fathers and husbands.

For women, these roles are blind assassins. Blind because society doesn’t intend to imprison women, but an assassin because they slowly, and clandestinely, sneak up on women and kill a part of them: their creativity, their need for self-actualization, their dreams, their ability to "be all that they can be," - to use a testosterone filled phrase - or “to follow their bliss,” to quote Oprah.

Of course, women can't completely ignore society’s conventions. (Laura completely disregards them and ends up driving off a bridge.)

“Death,” however, is not inevitable. Women do not have to become a victim of the blind assassin. They can save themselves by exercising their free will.

End of essay:

The reason I can’t personally respect Iris is because she never really gives up her desire to be seen by others as successfully playing the role expected of her. (Her obituary describes a good mother and good wife.)

The reason I keep harping on freewill is because I'm trying to save you from the blind assassin. The next time someone expect you to play a role - to compromise your future and integrity - you can say no.

Does that make sense?

 

[Doug Johnson]

That was hard. I'm going to go have a beer and watch some sports before my testerone level drops dangerously low.

 

[tartan_skirt]

I finished reading The Blind Assassin today and after reading through this discussion I feel like digging it up again and throwing in my thoughts, however insignificant they may be in comparision to others.

On the note of clothing I agree that it did play a major part in showing what women were expected to be interested in at the time. But, at one point it also provides an overlap of the two stories. In the blind assassin chapters it says "Someone's fingers, right around here, must have sewn the ermine trim on her white chiffon evening cape." (page 418). While this must seem like a trivial detail of fashion to some readers, the next section is an article which ends in "A tall blonde in a watermelon pink gown wore a white chiffon cape trimmed with ermine tails. (page 427). And while we don't know exactly who the tall blonde is (I think both sisters were described as blonde) this small detail helps to show us that infact this story is about one of the sisters.

I loved the book, and can't wait to read more of Atwood's work. I did find it a little slow at the start, but once I got a grip on the reality of the story and thought about the truth behind the Blind Assassin sections I could hardly put it down (yet it took me over two weeks to read!). If Atwood's sense of humour is anything like that of old Iris then I might just take a look at those interviews.

 

[Doug Johnson]

however insignificant they may be in comparision to others.

But, at one point it also provides an overlap of the two stories.

Be a little more confident. No one else mentioned the overlap: very good. What did you think about all the jumping back and forth? (A friend of mine stopped reading it for that reason.)

 

[aniela]

i managed to finish this book too, but it was indeed a slow reading.
what i appreciated most in it was Iris's attitude towards society that tried to put her in a certain determined place as an old woman. she may not have had the courage to fight the positions others were asigning to her earlier, but at least she was aware of them. and at the end of her life she also acquired a very enjoyable irony towards the world around.

i did not get the subjet of women's role in society very seriously in this book. for me the main issue was the attitude towards language of the two sisters. while Laura liked to put reality into crude words, words with a definite sense, Iris was complacent to double-meaning, to words as transmitting half truths, which were actually the core of the hypocritical society she was introduced to. and i think it is very difficult to try to defy a whole society, like Laura did. i did not like Iris's decisions much (actually they were not even decisions, they were acceptances of other people's decisions).
wow they kick me out of the computer room.

 

[aniela]

these university places with their computers and people who want to go home when you are in the middle of something!

in any case, i have almost finished my point in the previous post. for me the fact that the two main characters were women was not very important. i attached more importance to their way of accepting the society through the artful use of language.
and even in the story of the relationship between Alex and Iris, an important place was taken by Alex's fiction. it was more in the realms of words that everything was taken place, words in their power of taking you away from reality. the two did not seem to talk much about the delicate situation they were in (i mean at least Iris was avoiding the subject, understandably actually from her part). and even in the end, Iris chose to write to Sabrina, not to confront her directly. i found it typically for Iris to refuse to put reality into words.
i have a dilemma in here. i did not get the reasons why Iris chose to attribute to Laura her own book. i understood it as being another of her avoidances to unveil herself to the others through her words. but i am still doubtful about it. did anyone else here have a different opinion?

 

[tartan_skirt]

Be a little more confident. No one else mentioned the overlap: very good. What did you think about all the jumping back and forth? (A friend of mine stopped reading it for that reason.)

It was quite confusing at times. I did have to go back a few paragraphs every now and then when I became confused by whether it was present or past. I don't like giving up on books and I'm glad I didn't with this one.

i have a dilemma in here. i did not get the reasons why Iris chose to attribute to Laura her own book. i understood it as being another of her avoidances to unveil herself to the others through her words. but i am still doubtful about it. did anyone else here have a different opinion?

I agree that it was another of her times when she was avoiding being direct, but I think it might have something to do with her talking about people having to leave their mark on the world. Perhaps she left it in her sister's name because she wanted people to remember Laura... but I'm not too sure on this.

 

[aniela]

well, i thought about that too, tartan_skirt, but then i could not explain the passages when Iris feels some sort of a rage against her sister's admirers, the flowers they leave on her grave, they expressing their admiration for her work, etc.

 

[Doug Johnson]

well, i thought about that too, tartan_skirt, but then i could not explain the passages when Iris feels some sort of a rage against her sister's admirers, the flowers they leave on her grave, they expressing their admiration for her work, etc.

Writers can achieve a type of immortality if their books are read after they die. As she neared the end of her life, Iris may have regretted blowing her chance at "immortality" by not signing her name to the book. So she may have been angry with herself and misdirected the anger.

Originally, I thought that Iris didn’t use her name, because it was fairly obvious that the author was having an affair and Iris didn’t want to be embarrassed. Using Laura’s name could’ve been a way of punishing Laura. (That explains the anger; Iris wanted people to be angry with Laura and instead they admired her.)

 

[aniela]

thanks, Doug Johnson, i guess that could make sense.