Matured Forum = Less Discussions?

[direstraits]

I hate new threads that are the product of laziness. If someone doesn't make the effort to search to get an idea what has been said on a topic why should anyone make an effort to answer?

ions, I disagree with you not because your point doesn't have merit, but you are assuming everyone who uses this forum are already experts on using forums in general. I'm inclined to believe that there are a lot of users here who are first time users of a forum community on the Internet. As such, it wouldn't even have crossed their mind to search.

We probably wouldn't really know if the post was made out of laziness, or from pure simple enthusiasm.

There are many older Internet users who have read books all their lives, but are not very confident of their Internet skills. They find TBF, get beside themselves in excitement and posts about something they like, but got taken aback at the reception. They may not understand why they are not being responded to, and being new, may take it the wrong way, and take themselves elsewhere. And we lose a potentially wonderful contributor.

TBF is my first serious forum, and I know what it's like to be ignored when regulars post over my tiny little contribution like I wasn't there. Took me a while to learn it isn't personal, it's just how forums are sometimes.

ds

 

[Wabbit]

And now you are a part of the gang DS

I agree with you. I don't think it has anything to to with being lazy. A lot of people also are not very skilled in computers in general. The Internet and forums are still very new to a lot of people. Enthusiasm also plays a big part.

What gets me is why do people get their knickers in such a twist about it?? I mean, is it HURTING you by existing? Just simply ignore it and read something that does interest you.

 

[ions]

direstraits, the reasons you state are probably some of the best for showing people that their new posts can be innappropriate. This ties into the argument of newbies being comfortable as well.

If someone is new to forums they may not understand that it's still a community discussion and there is decorum to be followed. By linking someone to previously started threads on the topic or pointing out the search it shows them those procedures. If proper forum behaviour hasn't crossed their minds they need to learn. It's better for everyone. They'll get far more out of the site and the site will be better for their behaviour.

Now, about newbies feeling like they're at home right away. It sounds good but realistically it's rare. To feel at home, or comfortable anywhere, it helps to be familiar with a places nuances. And just like the big bad world it usually takes time for you to adapt to a new community and time for a new community to adapt to you. I've been around for 3 months now with around 130 posts. I love the forum and I'm comfortable here but I can usually slide into forums quickly because I generally behave pretty well and I know how to use a forum. I still took my time to read and see what this community preferred with certain things. I saw few old threads being bumped up so when I did do that I apologized for it if it wasn't preferred. I took the time to find what the decorum was around here. Before I've posted on any forum I've usually spent massive amounts of time reading before posting. I believe it's what you should do.

I've admined and moderated on other forums for a long time. Sheesh around 6 years, now I feel older. Anyway, it's been my experience that people that come flying in, don't search, some even post topics that exist on the very same page 8 or 9 threads down, are lazy. It's a safe bet that they are. It's also been my observation that people that behave like this don't stay at any forum too long. Maybe if they learned to use the tool they'd be inclined to use it longer?

 

[direstraits]

ions, I see the behaviour you've described, where people post on topics that exist several threads down, but mostly in technical forums. I can understand why someone who keeps getting unwanted popups in their computers immediately post their question in a new forum without scanning or searching first can be considered annoying.

But that's on a technical forum. A book forum attracts a completely different crowd, and I'm inclined to believe that new people who post here do so more out of impulse and enthusiasm than of laziness. I may be wrong of course, as generalizations always are, but I don't think I'm too far off.

Technical forums tend to draw users who are more familiar with forums (else why would they attempt to join a forum to get answers, rather than ask a neighbour or googling for solution). Book forums draw people who place life and books first, tech second, and therefore less likely to immediately grasp nuances of forum usage. This is the reason I believe a little patience is warranted for newbies, but without us regulars bending over backwards to accommodate them.

Hence my original post, when to point to old threads, and when to join in.

I remember how I felt when I came here, and started to ask about Earthsea and Kay fans - and I didn't search first, not because I'm lazy, but because I'm more interested in finding kindred spirits, and didn't think about people who would smack me down. And I'm technically competent.

And Wabbit, cheers! Reading your crazy posts those days was one of the reasons I joined, especially your post announcing your Barcelona trip.

ds

 

[Robert]

From a new users perspective, this forum doesn't always seem very frendly. For example, look at what happens whenever someone brings up Dan Brown. You have users that have made it a point to degrade Brown, his books, and the opinions of anybody that expresses anything positive about them. Nobody puts a stop to that. You think people want to talk about what they're reading if they're going to have to put up with that?

About redirecting folks to existing thread. It's not really a bad idea, but be sure to say it so as not to appear that you're boxing their ears back.

 

[ions]

It's defininately a rampant behaviour on technical boards. The only place I currently moderate is a Linux forum. It's an endless behaviour there. Perhaps that's one reason why I feel the way I do. Where I disagree with you is that it's not a technical issue but a social issue. There are technicalities to posting on a forum but there are technicalities with most things. Like being invited to a fine dinner, using the right utensils with the corresponding meals, napkin placement - manners. Manners should exist on a forum too. Initially people don't know about these things. Their enthusiasm may make them dig into the Bulgarian caviar with a soup spoon but it's not proper. Someone may be very enthusiastic about the Dan Brown they just read (snickers) or very enthusiastic about getting their network to work in Debian(Linux thing). Our forks and spoons are buttons and search fields.

 

[ions]

LOL - I swear I wrote my post before I saw Robert's comment on Dan Brown. But it could actually make a good example for this discussion. If you searched on Mr. Brown around here before you posted you would quickly see the tone of response you're going to get. Starting a new Dan Brown thread is only going exacerbate the problem.

I don't think anyone should be degraded for what they're reading. On the topic of Dan Brown I have seen people discuss him and state that he's something he's not and people have disagreed with accuracy. Hopefully this will not become a discussion on Dan Brown...

 

[Wabbit]

And Wabbit, cheers! Reading your crazy posts those days was one of the reasons I joined, especially your post announcing your Barcelona trip.

ds

Thanks

You damn kewl too batnana

 

[jenn]

i think dan brown should have his own forum on tbf. sort of like harry potter does.

carry on....

 

[jenn]

i also want to say for me personally, it was enthusiasm. spur of the moment, oh hey let's talk about this. this is also my first forum. i had never even msn'd before so i just joined and went right to general book discussion. i was too freaked out to click around and didn't introduce myself, well ever. i would hardly consider myself lazy, just zealous. have i learned a lot, yes. do i see new members doing things i did and think "oh oops" or "hmm they should look here", yes all the time. do i brow beat them because they are new and make assumptions about them, no.

i can't even agree with ds enough. i think he has expressed my sentiments exactly and with far more finesse than i could muster.

 

[Robert]

Dan Brown was just an example and as far as Dan Brown. The point is that the forum isn't always conducive to discussion, unless of course it's "classic literature."

 

[Shade]

You have users that have made it a point to degrade Brown, his books, and the opinions of anybody that expresses anything positive about them. Nobody puts a stop to that.

Well, Brown needs a little sand in his underpants to stop him from thinking he can have money and respect. But that's by the way. Your point has nothing to do with the topic in hand; people are entitled to their opinions, and I don't think it would be a positive move to rule that we can only say nice things about books here.

 

[jenn]

well i don't think that is what robert is trying to say. i know that a lot of people think the dc and db are shit, however if a new person wants to come in and discuss it, it does feel like a shut down if someone comes along and says something really negative, without discussing why. be negative, but say why, anything else is just stops a conversation dead in it's tracks.
if no one responds then the new person will have to draw their own conclusions.

 

[Robert]

Well, Brown needs a little sand in his underpants to stop him from thinking he can have money and respect. But that's by the way. Your point has nothing to do with the topic in hand; people are entitled to their opinions, and I don't think it would be a positive move to rule that we can only say nice things about books here.

That's not right! It's one thing to expression you're opinions about something. It's another thing entirely to post it repeatedly. If someone doesn't like a book or an author, then say and leave the thread so other that do like can discuss it.

 

[jenn]

i can think of loads of time when someone has said oh i hate that movie or i hate that book, it's a load of shite. but when i asked why, well crickets in a big empty field.

 

[jenn]

That's not right! It's one thing to expression you're opinions about something. It's another thing entirely to post it repeatedly.

i agree. i think that anyone who has spent anytime here at all, one month one year whatever, is very aware of some of our older members views on dan brown. i think that there might be, however some people, who may want to discuss him still. is it fair that the older member constantly berates the author and the readers for wanting to talk about it further? their opinion is on record, if they have nothing new to add, then what is the point of the comments?

 

[Shade]

The point is that the forum isn't always conducive to discussion, unless of course it's "classic literature."

I don't mean to single you out, Robert, but Jeez Louise! Where's the classic literature? If you check the Author Discussion board, you'll find that the five most-discussed authors are Stephen King, Chuck Palahniuk, Dan Brown, J.K. Rowling and Dean Koontz. Also ranking high are John Grisham, Iain Banks, Neil Gaiman, Agatha Christie, Harlan Coben, Paulo Coehlo, Jeffrey Archer, Clive Cussler, Tom Clancy, Wilbur Smith and Matthew Reilly. I think classic literature, or even modern literature, is under-represented rather than over-represented.

 

[Robert]

I don't mean to single you out, Robert, but Jeez Louise! Where's the classic literature? If you check the Author Discussion board, you'll find that the five most-discussed authors are Stephen King, Chuck Palahniuk, Dan Brown, J.K. Rowling and Dean Koontz. Also ranking high are John Grisham, Iain Banks, Neil Gaiman, Agatha Christie, Harlan Coben, Paulo Coehlo, Jeffrey Archer, Clive Cussler, Tom Clancy, Wilbur Smith and Matthew Reilly. I think classic literature, or even modern literature, is under-represented rather than over-represented.

I know you didn't, Shade. But it's not just Dan Brown, he was just and obvious example.

 

[SFG75]

As a newbie to this board, but a FOG on others, it's been my understanding that before posting a topic or a question on a board, that it is your responsibility to do a search or read through old threads to make sure that the road you want to cover hasn't already been covered. I agree with ions that newbs need to learn how to use their forks and spoons so to speak, but they have to also earn their lumps from time to time. I'm sure that Dan Brown is a fine author, but is it necessarily wrong to point out that ther are others who are probably of greater talent? Robert is right to state that perhaps the tastes of others are criticized by more veteran members, but I don't see how you can prevent that. I guess to me, it's the role of mods. to help people make sure that criticism is constructive in nature towards others.

 

[ions]

Have the tastes of the veterans been that obvious? Conversations on Mr. Brown have created some strong emotion but I personally haven't noticed. If anything I've seen more newbs come in and say they're looking for something that will make them look smart - nothing like King, Follet, or Clancy than a veteran bully their opinions.

ions, the self hating newb.