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michael moore is a big fat stupid white man (mn', mn', mn')

RitalinKid said:
I'm not old enough to remember Vietnam, but all the people I know that are say there's no comparison. This army is strictly volunteer. The daily death totals are nowhere near the totals of Vietnam. There is no superpower backing the resistance as in Vietnam. IMO, this situation is ten times better than Vietnam. The difference is the media is all over it; we know everything. Sometimes we know more than we should concerning troop movements.
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Are those people you speak with the same ones who maintain that America was not defeated in Vietnam?

Do you think that war began with conscription? Do you think the body-bag count was as big in that war's early stages as it became at its height? Or that the "situation" didn't start out "ten times better" than it would become before the US had to withdraw with its tail between its legs, spouting ridiculous slogans about "Peace with Honor"?

US. forces are not strictly volunteer already, anyway. Soldiers due for discharge are being kept in the forces whether they want to stay or not.

It was not support from any superpower that ended that war. It was world-wide condemnation of what the US. was doing, strongest condemnation coming from inside the US. itself. Vietnamese resolve was what kept the war going, and made American resolve crumble. Bombing people from high altitude is easy, if you're psychopathic enough to have the stomach for it; but that won't win a war. Fighting on the ground is another thing altogether. Modern America has no stomach for that.

And it is fighting an enemy now made up of people who don't care if they live or die. How's that for a frightening prospect? Are you going to kill them all? Do you think the rest of the world will let you? Or are you going to do a Randy Newman and drop the big one on everyone?

I'm not worried: We'll save Australia, don't wanna hurt no kangaroo
We'll build an all-American amusement park there
They've got surfin' toooo…!
 
To answer your first question, no, these people know we got it handed to us in Vietnam. These people served during that era, but were lucky enough to be assigned to intelligence duty due to technical abilities.

You bring up plenty to reply to. I don't want us to start writing dissertations to each other, so I'll try to keep it short.

I agree with you that things could get worse. However, the people that are being held in service are being held in because, I believe, it's in their contract. The army has that legal right. I don't agree with conscription unless its a completely dire situation similar to that of WWII.

I disagree with you though that the superpower support didn't help win the war. What is resolve in war without weapons? I think you might be downplaying the role of the communist powers supplying the Vietnamese with weapons. Currently the war on terrorism is two-pronged, with one being a major effort to snuff out terror funding.

The terrorists that don't care if they live are die are a new challenge, but you know, the CIA met with defeat in Cuba when Fidel came to power. Then they studied the guerilla tactics used and were able to stop similar revolutions in South America. I imagine the world community, not only the US, is watching right now and developing strategies to stop the new enemy.

As far as "The Big One" goes, I'm not sure that we shouldn't have used one or more of those guys at Tora Bora. It's remote, not like dropping one on a major city... again. I can't imagine what making that decision was like. Plus, Tora Bora was housing a large number of upper level Al Qaida members.

I'm sure you've noticed I like to ramble and make my ideas heard. It's simply because that's what these boards are for IMO, to share ideas and learn from each other. I always try to write in an amicable manner. Please don't take any of my comments to mean that I think your ideas are dumb; I just don't mind letting you know if I disagree. :) I TRY to do some introspection with regards to others opinions vs. my own, but you know how we people are.
 
RitalinKid said:
I'm sure you've noticed I like to ramble and make my ideas heard. It's simply because that's what these boards are for IMO, to share ideas and learn from each other. I always try to write in an amicable manner. Please don't take any of my comments to mean that I think your ideas are dumb; I just don't mind letting you know if I disagree. :) I TRY to do some introspection with regards to others opinions vs. my own, but you know how we people are.
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I like your posts, and that you like to make your ideas heard. For my part, if you think my ideas are dumb, it won't worry me. I pass that judgement on other people's ideas quite often. Or at least that their ideas are mistaken, misguided, whatever. How boring it would be if everyone's ideas were the same. As to writing in an amicable manner, well, I sometimes have some trouble doing that, but after all, it's only words.

In respect of the "war on terrorism," the enemy may well see what they are engaged in in similar terms. They feel that they've been screwed around and terrorised by western powers, especially the US., since the end of WWII. The common people, I'm talking about, not governments. Installing puppet governments (including Saddam Hussein's) to manipulate and exploit people can only keep the lid on thing for just so long. If you drive someone to suicide, you'd better not be too surprised if he wants to take you with him.
 
Oberon said:
The question raised in "Bowling," "Why are Americans so afraid?" is important and begs for a reasoned and well-researched answer.
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Well there is no easy answer to that question. I think the intention of his movies is for you to start thinking about these questions and try to come up with your own answer. If he had tried to answer that question in the short space of his movie the answer would be far too shallow to matter. It would have made the movie much less interesting. Sometimes asking the questions can be more important than providing the answers.

Moore is trying to get the attention of the average joe, and he manages it by keeping it simple and using his humour. Once he has got your attention, maybe you will go on to read more serious books about the subject. His methods may be "cheap" but they work.

Ritalinkid said:
The terrorists that don't care if they live are die are a new challenge, but you know, the CIA met with defeat in Cuba when Fidel came to power. Then they studied the guerilla tactics used and were able to stop similar revolutions in South America.
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Yes and i'm sure so many south americans are thankful for the "help" they got.
/sarcasm

Now Saddam has served USA twice. First to stop the evil(tm) Iran, and now as the evil dictator(tm).
 
Well I guess at least he has the balls to publish his opinions. I think everyone else has either lost interest or are too scared to speak out, so good on him for giving it a go.

One thing I did find was his tendancy to be a bit high and mighty though, like we should all aspire to me Michael Moore. For example, in one of his books he makes out that people claim not to be racist by stating they have black friends when in fact they don't (which personally I haven't ever experienced but I'll take his word for it) then, to my complete astonishment, he brags he has employed a few black people to work for him - I actually cringed for him when I read that. How embarassing that he felt the need to say that to prove he's not racist. I just thought it was totally insulting.
 
Folly said:
Well I guess at least he has the balls to publish his opinions. I think everyone else has either lost interest or are too scared to speak out, so good on him for giving it a go.

One thing I did find was his tendancy to be a bit high and mighty though, like we should all aspire to me Michael Moore. For example, in one of his books he makes out that people claim not to be racist by stating they have black friends when in fact they don't (which personally I haven't ever experienced but I'll take his word for it) then, to my complete astonishment, he brags he has employed a few black people to work for him - I actually cringed for him when I read that. How embarassing that he felt the need to say that to prove he's not racist. I just thought it was totally insulting.
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The problem is that I have with his work is that its biased to the point that he misleads people. In Bowling, he spliced together different soundbites to alter the meaning of statements.

He asks tough questions though. I love that he has asked the question "why do the US have such a large murder rate when other countries do not?" He doesn't answer it, but the answers are there and need to be found and used to implement changes.

I agree with you he is very self important. Other celebrities are trying to be political analysts, and they have no idea what's going on. Politics are not trivial. You can't read the paper everyday or read a book and know what's going on.
 
I don't understand why Michael Moore is seen as so biased yet right-wing propaganda isn't.
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Is there any liberal/libertarian or other right-wing equivalent to Michael Moore?
 
Well, I kinda liked his latest book release. Even though he may be fat. I agree that he's maybe too provocative sometimes, but I think his end justifies his means.
 
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