Mods and banning (split from 'what color are you')

[Stewart]

I am not an attention seeker.

That's YOUR opinion. As a mod you don't merit an opinion. Or are you a member now?

This really isn't about moderation is it?

Yes, it is. You can't moderate yourselves objectively.

This is about you and a couple of other people not liking certain people.

I'm not part of any clique.

Shouldn't that sort of thing be left to the playground?

As Litany has said previously, this forum could be an excellent resource for discussion on literature and other media but it has become a playground. There's more nonsense than sense. I wonder who puts the nonce in it - that my two sense

Politics are not allowed for discussion.

Even forum politics? That's what this is, right?

Why is that kept being brought up?

Bile has a habit of doing that.

It's that simple!

You or the forum?

I'm not telling you to leave

You, of all people, should know that whatever you say has no influence. That's why things keep getting brought up. BY joining the forum as a member and participating your strength as a moderator is lost. You may still have the rights to delete/close/edit/merge/split/stick posts but you don't get the respect a moderator because you believe yourself to be a member.

And you know what, sometimes you can be a complete dick - I guess that's the sort of member you mean.

 

[Wabbit]

This has just devolved into personal attacks. I find it very childish. You don't like me? You don't like Martin? Fine. That's your choice. I prefer if you don't inuslt me and keep it to yourself. It's boring. It's childish. If you have issued with the way the forum is run then state them. IF you have issues with me or Martin of anybody else then send them to darren.

What gives you the right to insult me in such a way? Read yourself and see how you come off. IF you are trying to bait me then it's not working. IF not, then I feel just a little sorry for you.

 

[Stewart]

If you have issued with the way the forum is run then state them. IF you have issues with me or Martin of anybody else then send them to darren.

If I have issues with the way the forum is run then I'll send them to Darren; certainly to neither of you little people.

 

[Wabbit]

Great....

 

[Freya]

This has just devolved into personal attacks. I find it very childish. You don't like me? You don't like Martin? Fine. That's your choice. I prefer if you don't inuslt me and keep it to yourself. It's boring. It's childish. If you have issued with the way the forum is run then state them. IF you have issues with me or Martin of anybody else then send them to darren.

It's not an issue of like and dislike, believe it or not. Just an issue with how the place is being run. Martin said you didn't mind suggestions, here we are, suggesting.

 

[Wabbit]

Yeah - sure.

 

[Freya]

Do you genuinely not think that you, as a moderator, represent the other mods and management as a whole? To me you do. I'd guess that to a lot of people you do.

 

[Stewart]

This is a post from a moderator on another forum I use. The situation is that some annoying little kid has created a post asking for help with a technical issue he's having, has labelled the thread URGENT, help!!!!!, and has demanded, in broken textspeak, help by a certain date. Certainly not going to happen when you arrive on a forum with such an attitude. Asked to use an improved standard of English he bitched and moaned about how people should just help him with his problem and who cares about spelling and how nobody was helping him. The following post received a number of posts afterwards in agreement with what was said thanking the moderator for their words and taking the time to show an excellent level of impartiality. It is, in my opinion, how a moderator should respond to people - whether it be a response to something critical or suggestive - while at all other times staying away from arguments, not responding to bait, and showing a level head in all matters. I give it to you; maybe you can learn.

what tould you do on a forum when there have been 300 views and no replies ?

This is a perfect example of why using (as near to) perfect English as possible is the best method of communication on a forum where the common language is English. I have no idea what that question is asking. Is tould supposed to be told or could?

Also, not every user of an English speaking forum is a native English speaker. Using slang, text speak, and colloquial phrases mean nothing to them or don't translate correctly so it should be avoided. Why shun the help of a native Spaniard or Dutchman if you use British slang which isn't taught in ESOL (English for Speakers of an Other Language) textbooks.

1. People are more bothered about, lets say, the appreance of the forum, as, some people complain about slang, some of you complain about urgency, instead of actually posting something useful and now you say im demanding, when after looking at my posts several times, you could even say if you understood or you didn't

Let's address these one by one:

People are more bothered about, lets say, the appearance of the forum

I don't know what you mean here but there are certain things which are beneficial upon a forum when done right. Asking a question: it's important to ensure that you get as much detail about your problem into the title of the thread rather than just typing something unhelpful as urgent, help needed. The reasons?

1) Most people will look at threads that interest them. They might see a thread called Looping Through A Recordset with ADO and decide to read it because ADO is something they know they can help with. Using urgent as the title says nothing about the problem and means that people have to open the thread to see what the hell it is about - and this is also one of the reasons for the high views, low replies. Another reason is that bots indexing the forum for their respective search engines view each thread as they spider through the forum - these bots, who obviously can't help, add to the total of views.

2) The forum is not just about helping one person with their problems. It's about helping everyone. It's a well known fact that people run into similar problems when using tools such as Access and the good forum user knows to search the forum's archive (and the web) to see if the problem has been solved before. The search function, though, is only as good as the title of the threads. It's this that most searches are performed upon so while many might search on looping+ADO+recordset you won't find too many (or any) that use urgent as their search keyword.

2. Why in god's name would i even come here if i found what i needed in my "research" ????? So think before you post please.

But what "research" have you actually done? You are more likley to get help if you can demonstrate what you understand about the problem, what you have tried, what results that you have got and why they are wrong. This demonstrates that you are actually trying to solve your problem and not just expecting an answer to something you can't be bothered either doing or learning. The more information you can offer then the more accurate and authoritative the information that can be returned.

3. Harldy anyone on this forum is polite enough, even the mods are not polite.. Ive been through some posts and the mods are exceptionally rude...

The forum has been online for a number of years and there is a great feeling of community here - some people have even taken the time to meet up in "real life". It is full of professional people with jobs who still come here when they can to help others and what precious time they offer is a godsend. I, and others, give of a great deal of our time to help people on this forum and your initial post asking for a response "by Friday" did nothing but belittle the efforts given. You are looking for free advice so that means there's no guarantee you will get any and you certainly can't expect any or give orders.

So, you think the mods are rude. I assume you are referring to me since I think I'm the only mod that has dealt with your posts. I don't consider myself rude - only blunt. I'm busy; I don't have time to pander to people.

This is not the way forums work.

Since you don't know how to express yourself on a technical forum and how a technical forum should work - technical, not some random chat forum - I can consider this a pointless comment.

This is very unprofessional stuff, and i can find better access forums on the net.

Go find them then. You'll probably find me and many others here on them too. Small world, eh?

BTW, check out the www.invisionize.com if some of you haven't already.... That is the way forums should work. Every post is meaningful. Not talk about peoples attitudes n go off topic. sigh!

Ok, I've checked out Invisionize and I fail to see your point. They have their own list of guidelines (see here) for posting which you obviously haven't read. Funnily enough they suggest you explain your requests with as much detail as possible. So, to get all syllogistic: that forum requires detail to get answers/replies, this forum requires detail to get answers/replies, so that must mean that this forum works just the same as that forum.

Talking about people's attitudes is important as it's accepted (n)etiquette - we're busy people. We don't need crap from people who treat the forum's community as a resource solely for them. See my previous comments about every question being for every user of the forum - even those that are yet to join or know the forum even exists.

I hope you get your answers - Access security, as has been stated, is a very big subject. I suggest finding information about it from the Microsoft Knowledge Base*, reading the information and coming back with specific questions and showing some proof of using your initiative to solve your problem.

Personally, I don't use Access Security. I prefer to create a table of users, their username, and a field for password, and use the Environ function as the database opens to validate them as a user. How does this method sound? It's a lot easier than getting bogged down in Access Security.

* If I remember correctly, there is a downloadable document somewhere in the Knowledge Base that takes you through some security information/tutorials.

Also, it doesn't matter that I'm referring to a technical forum instead of another leisure forum like this just in case your complete retort is limited to but that's not this forum or but that's just that moderator's opinion.

 

[Irene Wilde]

Again, why do you and a few others insist on stirring things up? Those few that broke the rules were banned. If you think we are so evil people and this forum is so nazi then why are you here?

Excuse me, but I didn't start this thread. This thread, I thought, was entitled "Banning and Mods" so what better place?

My very first ever post here was greeted with hostility from a moderator, even though it was completely within the rules, on-topic, and tongue-in-cheek in tone. I was ready to leave then, but there were those among your membership that asked me to remain.

And among your remaining membership are people who keep asking me to participate, who appeal to my soft-hearted nature and my hope that one day this forum may fulfill its potential. They seem to feel I have something to contribute to the dialogue here.

Also, as long as I keep my membership and "work within the system" there's the possibility of affecting positive change. It may seem contrary to you, but I have great affection for this place as well. I love books and love talking with other people who read, about a great many things. But yes, I still believe censorship is the enemy of books, and any forum that purports to celebrate books should take special care when exercising censorship.

One of my favorite authors, and one of the most banned, is Henry Miller. His work is brilliant, vibrant, and dynamic. It is also, raw, coarse, and, at times, extreme. He wouldn't have lasted here five minutes.

This is a bit rambling and unfocused, but I've only had one cup of coffee this morning.

 

[Stewart]

I decided there's no point bitching and moaning here since "one side" can't take criticism and what we can only call "the other side" isn't represented within the moderating team. I've contacted Darren to discuss this.

 

[novella]

I think the discussion of whether a moderator is always a moderator or whether a moderator is sometimes 'just a member' is very interesting.

Is there a general statement or guideline on TBF on how to moderate, or is it something you are supposed to know how to do instinctively?

Does TBF have a set of rules that apply to moderators? I anticipated when this thread was split off and titled as such by Martin that it would quickly devolve into a discussion of past bannings, etc., but I think the discussion of overall moderating philosophy is worthwhile.

Should a moderator be able to throw comments and opinions of others around like a basic member and then switch to Moderator Mode and censor other people when they do the same?

Should a moderator be allowed to start threads that are potentially inflammatory and off-topic?

These questions are NOT pointed at specific people. Just wondering what the official stance here is.

 

[Stewart]

This is the list I use as criteria for my history forum as a guideline for what a moderator should be.

• An understanding of how to use the forum - PMs, Profile, BB Code, etc.
• A good knowledge of the areas in which they involve themselves
• A mutual respect for each member of the community
• A willingness to help others by providing assistance and/or references
• An ability to show no bias
• Proficient spelling and grammar skills
• A drive to encourage discussion, especially when the discussion ebbs

 

[phil_t]

I think many forum members have a tendency to develop a 'them and us' attitude to Moderators that can set them apart a little from the general members. This is not necessarily a bad thing, only when certain groups seem to imagine that there is some kind of 'Mod Conspiracy' against them.

I am an Admin on another forum, which is partly the reason I am not around here anymore - now I started in that forum as a member, then moved up to Mod, Global Mod and finally Admin. I think that at each stage you move up the 'chain of command' you do have a tendency to become a little shielded from the general member base, however much you like to joke around with them, you get pushed up on a certain higher plateau as to how you are meant to put yourself across. As an Admin I find that I must watch what I say, how I post, what sort of subjects I post on - it sets you apart and I think it is a different experience from being just a normal member. Is it necessarily a bad change? Of course not, but it does make you different.

Part of the problem this forum has currently, has always had to be honest, is that the most influencial members of staff, Darren the Admin and the senior mods, are (with the exception of Martin) not very visible on the forum. Now I realise the Darren, Ell and Ashlea may well be extremely busy with other things, and this is not a criticism, but when those setting the rules are not generally around to make sure they are adhered too, they are forced to lay those responsabilities off onto others.

Phil

 

[novella]

That's a very interesting perspective, phil. Wisdom there, particularly in your reflections on becoming more 'self-moderating' with more authority.

 

[Zolipara]

I think the discussion of whether a moderator is always a moderator or whether a moderator is sometimes 'just a member' is very interesting.

I'm a member of many forums, and i'm also actually hosting a few smaller forums myself, but i've never seen this member/moderator duality in the other forums i've visited. I think that if you accept moderator status you should be aware that all your posts will be seen as posts from a moderator, not just a regular member. And as long as you have the "moderator" tag under your name nothing you say or do can change this view.

If we are discussing the forum i'd put my vote in for a forum where we can discuss politics. Pretty much any discussion will touch on the subject, and many books are political in nature. Its very hard to avoid the subject. It will probably make the moderators job a little bit harder, but maybe you can loosen up on the rules for that forum and put up a "here there be Dragons" sign.

 

[Miss Shelf]

There are plenty of other forums to discuss politics on. I for one avoid discussing politics on forums because that gives blowhards an opportunity to foist their views on the rest of us. But that's just me.

 

[Motokid]

"but maybe you can loosen up on the rules for that forum and put up a "here there be Dragons" sign."

Been suggested by me, and others before me...always not an option.

 

[phil_t]

This politics discussion has gone round and round in circles ... at the end of the day, its a bad idea - this is a book forum, if you want to go talk politics, join a political forum. Personally, I dont mind dropping in the occasional political comment into my posts, but I'd never make a topic out of it and on the occasions that it has gone down that road I distance myself after a few posts.

Being a Moderator is an incredibly thankless job (being an Admin infinately more so, but enough about that) - there are numerous niggling little tasks to be done behind the scenes. I am constantly amazed that anyone wants to do it, even more so that people so it as a 'reward' for being a constructive member of the forum. Having said that, I love being a Mod/Admin on my forum, I think its great to be able to give a helping hand in a community you care about, even if it is an online one. So to the general members I would say this - cut the people some slack, they're only human, they're bound to **** up ... or at the very least appreciate that it does take them an effort.

I think also that the situation on the forum is not helped by a select group of rabble-rousers who like to stir up trouble, is it a suprise that they are the friends of banned members, and that they do so 'in their name' ... of course not. Is it all a bit sad really ... yes, very much so, but then its human nature. I make no secret of where my allegiances lie on this issue, so dont make the mistake of believing me unbiased - one of the Mods is my fiancee, two of the others are friends with whom I have enjoyed a great deal of time bantering back and forth. Does this mean that I am blind to their bad sides, no, but then I dont think that they are either. I think that they try their hardest to be impartial whilst still being passionate individuals and getting some enjoyment out of the forum .. which is rather the point of it anyway.

Phil

 

[novella]

All that is true, phil, and some mods manage to do a great job and seem to enjoy it. It may be thankless work and not always fun; nevertheless, mods choose to become mods.

Why has it gone so eerily quiet on the subject of moderating guidelines? While attacking various people on the subjects of cliques, bannings, levels of tolerance, and who said what back in October is amusing, it's not very constructive. Better to look to the future.

What is the official view here of whether moderators are supposed to distinguish themselves from regular members?

Pulled from previous post:

Should a moderator be able to throw comments and opinions of others around like a basic member and then switch to Moderator Mode and censor other people when they do the same?

Should a moderator be allowed to start threads that are potentially inflammatory and off-topic?

 

[phil_t]

Very well, if you wish to talk issues

1. Yes, they should, as long as they keep to their own guidelines, ie. no comments designed to insult other members, etc - why should they be prevented from messing around and having fun like they always have? As I alluded to in my previous posts, becoming a moderator should not preclude you from enjoying yourself on the forum.

2. Similarly, as long as they keep away from inflammatory topics, why shouldnt they start threads on whatever they like - if its kept in the appropriate General Chat forum there shouldnt be an issue if they want to start a thread about how much they enjoy Norwegian fish-slapping dances.

Phil