"Mom delivers 16th child" - Is there something wrong with this?

[Kookamoor]

A man stating he wants a baby should not carry anywhere near as much weight as a woman stating she does not.

No, no. I agree. All I'm saying is:

Interesting point. Abortion does affect men as well... not sure how that is expressed in the law, though.

I think too often men are left out of the consideration. A man may need assistance or counselling as well, and may wish to be informed of the woman's decision. Does he have a right to? Certainly if that child was born he would have an obligation to pay for that child, so shouldn't he have a right to know if the mother decides not to go through with the pregnancy?

Does anyone have any more information about the father's rights where abortion is concerned?

 

[Jemima Aslana]

The father's rights regarding abortion in DK are non-existant to my knowledge. If the mother comes in alone she's alone about it, if her man is with her at the clinic he'll be there in the counselling if the couple so desires. But nowhere does he have any legal rights regarding an unborn child. I don't see any reason why this should be changed either.

 

[Kookamoor]

The father's rights regarding abortion in DK are non-existant to my knowledge. If the mother comes in alone she's alone about it, if her man is with her at the clinic he'll be there in the counselling if the couple so desires. But nowhere does he have any legal rights regarding an unborn child. I don't see any reason why this should be changed either.

Not even the right to know if an abortion took place? Does he have a child?

I don't know where I stand on this yet either, I should say. I'm just nosing out opinions.

 

[Ice]

Does anyone have any more information about the father's rights where abortion is concerned?

As far as I am aware, in both the UK and the US, the father has no rights as far as abortion is concerned. They can neither force a woman to have a child, nor deny her aborting it. In China, a man sued his wife for having an abortion as Chinese law states that men have the same rights as women to have children and in this particular case his wife was denying him his child.

 

[moonshot]

On the whole Catholics do not agree with abortion. So how can you talk about abortion and not bring religion into the conversation, unless you exclude all Catholics....which I don`t subscribe to.

Also children under 16....should the question of rape not be addressed?

 

[Kookamoor]

On the whole Catholics do not agree with abortion. So how can you talk about abortion and not bring religion into the conversation, unless you exclude all Catholics....which I don`t subscribe to.

We're just trying to respect the rules of the forum, which do not allow discussion of religion. I realise that people have different beliefs about whether abortion is appropriate or not, but for the sake of keeping this thread open we're ignoring that argument, and instead discussing some of the legislation that surrounds abortion where it is permitted. I don't think anyone is being excluded, but we are excluding the discussion of the appropriateness of abortion in the first place. Otherwise this thread would be closed.

Also children under 16....should the question of rape not be addressed?

Actually, in many places the age of consent is lower. For example it's apparently 14 in Canada!! See more here.

 

[Jemima Aslana]

Not even the right to know if an abortion took place? Does he have a child?

Not as far as I know. In DK the procedure around births is this. Since you can be sure that the woman who gave birth to the child is the mother that is the only fact anyone calculates with at the very beginning. So when a woman comes to the hospital to give birth and does so, it is then her duty to fill out a form with the child's name, date of birth and parentage for the authorities. If she so chooses she can leave the 'father-field' blank. If she does 'fill in' a father, he will have to sign to to the fact that he acknowledges that he is indeed the daddy. As such the father is not acknowledged as the father of the child with the authorities until the mother has told them he is thusly. If the father is there at the hospital, all hospital personel will treat him as the father naturally, but legally he isn't a father until the mother says he is.

Hence no father can demand to know about an abortion because they have technically not become fathers yet at that point.

It helps, of course, that DK has a very calm attitude towards the whole abortion issue. We always have intiatives running that teach people about birth control, but most people acknowledge that knowledge of birth control is not the same thing as eliminating snappers, and thus abortion is a necessary measure in some cases.

I don't know where I stand on this yet either, I should say. I'm just nosing out opinions.

That's a good place to start

@ the story of the Chinese lawsuit:
If a man wants a child so desperately, I suggest he find a woman who's actually willing to carry his child. That everyone has equal rights to have children - fair enough, I can live with that. But to force a woman to carry something she doesn't want inside her body for 9 months, that's possibly the longest rape I can think of.

 

[Ice]

This is the case I was thinking of:

Chinese man sues wife over abortion

 

[Shade]

To drag the subject back to the opening topic, and add my voice to the fray: I agree with Motokid (er, what exactly were the 'mixed' thoughts you had about it Moto?? They seemed pretty decided to me!). What the hell is wrong with these people? Maybe they don't know what causes it; I'll go and have a word with them, and let them see my cinereel of Mr Fluffy Bunny's Guide to You-Know-What.

If everyone adopted their selfish attitude, the world population would be approaching 50 billion within a generation. There are already way too many people in the world. In the 2,000 years between 50BC and 1950AD the world population rose from about 200 million to about 2,500 million. In the 55 years since then, it has risen by a further 4,000 million! Am I the only one who finds that shocking?

 

[moonshot]

We're just trying to respect the rules of the forum, which do not allow discussion of religion. I realise that people have different beliefs about whether abortion is appropriate or not, but for the sake of keeping this thread open we're ignoring that argument, and instead discussing some of the legislation that surrounds abortion where it is permitted. I don't think anyone is being excluded, but we are excluding the discussion of the appropriateness of abortion in the first place. Otherwise this thread would be closed.



Actually, in many places the age of consent is lower. For example it's apparently 14 in Canada!! See more
here.

I do understand that members are trying to respect the rules of the forum, which do not allow discussion of religion. And that is my point, I don`t think you can have a open discussion which starts by excluding something or someone from stating their point of view. I was not so much joining the abortion debate as pointing out that I am already excluded from putting my point across because I would be breaking a rule if I did.
I may start a new thread on this one as I don`t want to divert from the abortion topic.
But can I add Regarding the abortion discussion, it`s like most discussions, there is no right or wrong. It comes down to someones point of view and the law.
One example; a husband and wife want a child, they plan this together. The wife becomes pregnant at about the same time that she wins a talent show and is offered a recording contract. She now wants to postpone having a child and to continue her music career. What should happen?

 

[Motokid]

Mixed feelings in that they are free to do as they please, and nobody should tell them they can't have as many kids as they wish. As long as they can afford to raise them.

Who am I to say a family should have "X" number of members?
Who am I to say that anything over "X" is a crime against all humanity?

On the other hand....suppose the father is killed in a car accident...

 

[muggle]

The problem IS NOT people having more than 2 children when they choose to do so, it is having many children that were unintended because they do not know how to prevent them. Educate the people and the problem will go away.

 

[Motokid]

I think there's a valid arguement for people who willingly have huge numbers of kids causing problems in the world. It's a huge strain on the worlds resources that grows in a geometric progression.

I have a wife and two kids (4 people total). The food, clothing, electricity, gas, oil, vehicles....that this family of 18 uses every year could provide for four of my families with some left over.

There are grounds for debate.

 

[Shade]

I don`t think you can have a open discussion which starts by excluding something or someone from stating their point of view.

Not to be deliberately contrary, but in this case I believe the exact opposite. In any debate about morals or ethics I am not interested in views which are based on belief in an imaginary supreme being and the surrounding accoutrements. I don't think such superstitions have anything to contribute to a reasoned discussion, because by definition they are not based on reason.

 

[Motokid]

And....we've actually been having a discussion about abortion without religion being a part of it...the abortion part started back at post #85....

So it can be done. We've been proving it right here.

 

[ruby]

And....we've actually been having a discussion about abortion without religion being a part of it...the abortion part started back at post #85....

So it can be done. We've been proving it right here.

And in post 87 where i put i didnt intend on religion being part of this discussion!

 

[StillILearn]

The problem IS NOT people having more than 2 children when they choose to do so, it is having many children that were unintended because they do not know how to prevent them. Educate the people and the problem will go away.

Yet again I find muggle to be the very voice of reason.

Aside: The people of the State of California voted down Proposition 73 yesterday.

 

[ruby]

Muggle is right if people are educated in the right way in the first place!

A lot of unwanted pregnancy and abortion would not happen!

Sex education at school happens from an early age as i found out with my kids!
Its great there being taught about it but i also talk to my kids about these issues as well.

 

[Ice]

Muggle is right if people are educated in the right way in the first place!

A lot of unwanted pregnancy and abortion would not happen!

Sex education at school happens from an early age as i found out with my kids!
Its great there being taught about it but i also talk to my kids about these issues as well.

Unfortunately that is not always the case England had (has?) the highest rate of teenage pregnancy in Western Europe and we do receive sex education at school.

 

[ruby]

Unfortunately that is not always the case England had (has?) the highest rate of teenage pregnancy in Western Europe and we do receive sex education at school.

I know and thats really sad.