"Mom delivers 16th child" - Is there something wrong with this?

[Motokid]

So if the education is there, and the problem just keeps getting worse, then what's the answer?

Could it possibly be that sex in all forms of media has been given the green light to be portrayed as acceptable and cool? Hardly ever showing the results of whoring around and being loose.

If you're not having sex you'e a loser?
If you are not having sex at a very young age you're a geek and a loner?

Look at MTV every now and again? It's really gotten kind of disgraceful. I'm not being a prude here, but when you've got young kids, the amount of sensless sexual bullshit that's infiltrated every form of media really becomes apparent.

 

[ruby]

Your right here moto

The media do have a lot to do with it and these so called superstars in the way they dress!
Kids think its cool to dress like madonna or other stars!

Skirts up there arses or low cut tops etc.

I am just glad my girls dress in jeans,t.shirts and trainers.

Because they wouldnt be allowed out the house in clothes like these stars wear.

 

[StillILearn]

I know and thats really sad.

But, wait! What do you think that's all about? If education is not the answer, what is?

 

[Stewart]

Hardly ever showing the results of whoring around and being loose?

Don't try and spoil my dream!

 

[ruby]

But, wait! What do you think that's all about? If education is not the answer, what is?

I really dont know what the answer is,but as a parent i am open and honest with my girls about all aspects of sex,and i always answer any questions they want to ask.

Maybe schools should do more or the parents i really dont know.

 

[ruby]

Don't try and spoil my dream!

What dream is that?

You being a whore and loose

 

[Motokid]

Part of the reason is society in general no longer gives a shit about any of this. There's no backlash for a kid who gets pregnant or the kid who got her pregnant. They still go to school. The parents of the child who has the baby end up taking care of everybody, and life goes on.

If there was greater consequences for getting pregnant the problem might decline a bit. I would have been scared shitless to walk into my house and tell my parents I'd knocked up some girl by accident. I'd have rather been caught stealing cars or something. Getting a girl pregnant when I was growing up was considered a huge huge ****-up. Today I think society just shrugs it's shoulders and goes back to watching characters on The OC doing the same thing....

 

[StillILearn]

Motokid - There's no backlash for a kid who gets pregnant or the kid who got her pregnant. They still go to school. The parents of the child who has the baby end up taking care of everybody, and life goes on.

What would you have us do to these little Hester Prynnes then, Moto? Yank them out of school? Put them out on the street?

 

[Motokid]

What would you have us do to these little Hester Prynnes then, Moto? Yank them out of school? Put them out on the street?

Tough love. If you're gonna play adult games you have to be willing to accept adult reality. They need to accept responcibilty for at least the next 18 years and do whatever it takes to provide for the child. Get jobs and work. Get a place to live, and raise the child. Get married.

There's a number of things that could help. Patting them on the back and telling them all is alright is not helping anything is it? Whatever it is that society is doing now is not working. Maybe getting tougher is the answer.

I didn't have a child until I was married, and close to 30 years old. It's not that difficult to do.

 

[moonshot]

Not to be deliberately contrary, but in this case I believe the exact opposite. In any debate about morals or ethics I am not interested in views which are based on belief in an imaginary supreme being and the surrounding accoutrements. I don't think such superstitions have anything to contribute to a reasoned discussion, because by definition they are not based on reason.

I agree....you do not have to believe in a supreme being and you should be able to say so without offending anyone, that is my point, but how many people have you now offended and if one complains the thread is closed. Like wise if someone does believe in a supreme being and that is affecting their views on abortion or (back to the start of this thread) having 16 children then that also must form part of the discussion.
What the pc brigade sometimes forget is that a rule no talking about religion will offend as many people as they are trying not to offend; you are then left with a group who are constantly compromising their views so as not to break a rule, rather than not offend.
I`m sorry if this seems a bit deep, but we are all adults and we should be able to discuss a subject with or without references to religion without being offended or offending others. I have strong views on abortion but they may have religious overtones, so I am not able to give them.
If you have to have a rule then it should be; no thread should be started where religion could form part of the discussion, that way it will be fair, but boring.

 

[Motokid]

I agree....you do not have to believe in a supreme being and you should be able to say so without offending anyone, that is my point, but how many people have you now offended and if one complains the thread is closed. Like wise if someone does believe in a supreme being and that is affecting their views on abortion or (back to the start of this thread) having 16 children then that also must form part of the discussion.
What the pc brigade sometimes forget is that a rule no talking about religion will offend as many people as they are trying not to offend; you are then left with a group who are constantly compromising their views so as not to brake a rule, rather than not offend.
I`m sorry if this seems a bit deep, but we are all adults and we should be able to discuss a subject with or without references to religion without being offended or offending others. I have strong views on abortion but they may have religious overtones, so I am not able to give them.
If you have to have a rule then it should be; no thread should be started where religion could form part of the discussion, that way it will be fair, but boring.

WTF !!!! The only way to be fair is for you to stay out of the thread if you can't abide by the rules of the forum. We all seem to be able to behave with no problems. We are doing nothing wrong, yet you propose this thread should be closed because of what "could be"? That's insane.

 

[muggle]

Back on topic.

In low-income and lower educated countries, a large percentage of the overall population is under age 30 which is either in childbearing years or will soon enter childbearing years.

In high-income and higher educated countries the "largest" segments of the population are middle-aged or older and have moved beyond childbearing years.

 

[Motokid]

Perhaps, moonshot, you may be interested in reading this thread:

Are You Offended?

We've been down some of that road already.

 

[Shade]

I don't want to tread on doubtful ground so if any of this post veers into debatable land then please amend it, mods.

Like wise if someone does believe in a supreme being and that is affecting their views on abortion or (back to the start of this thread) having 16 children then that also must form part of the discussion.

I would say, with all the sincerity I can muster, that if an opinion is determined by a religion founded on the contents of Nonspecific Book X, written hundreds or thousands of years ago, then that opinion (or more properly the 'reason' for that opinion) is not worth having.

I have strong views on abortion but they may have religious overtones, so I am not able to give them.

You are able to give your views, just not expand on the religious basis for them. As religion is no basis for views on morality or ethics I would say this is right and proper. It's quite possible to have the same opinion, eg abortion is always wrong, without that coming from a religious background. You'd have to back it up with real reason or evidence then, and that's as it should be in any proper debate or discussion.

 

[Kookamoor]

Woah, woah. Let's not go down this road - moonshot is raising some valid points, and getting angry isn't going to do anything but leave people feeling 'offended' and getting this thread closed. Moonshot - talking about abortion also means politics, but we're avoiding that debate as well. Darren has put these policies in place for reasons based on his previous experience, and we have to abide by them. We went through this 'offended' discussion a little while ago and it resulted in some members leaving and others getting very upset about various things. While I, personally, acknowledge your point, you also have to realise that when you sign up to the forum these are the things that we have to abide by. Consequently you may feel that this debate can't really be balanced without discussion of religion. That's a valid point, but unfortunately that's a topic we really can't get into for the above-mentioned reasons. You can, however, give your opinions without the religious context as everyone is entitled to their own views.

Feel free to PM myself, Moto or one of the mods and we can give you some more info about some of the past discussions and maybe give some more background as to the reason for this. I really don't want to see anyone, least of all you, being upset about this. Them's the rules and we've got to stick to 'em!

Okay, back on track:

Tough love. If you're gonna play adult games you have to be willing to accept adult reality. They need to accept responcibilty for at least the next 18 years and do whatever it takes to provide for the child. Get jobs and work. Get a place to live, and raise the child. Get married.

All very valid points... except for the fact that it really removes these kids from having a valid future. According to your plan they have to drop out of school and basically be unable to complete their high school diploma. Going back to school after a long absence is incredibly difficult. THis is what perpetuates the poverty loop. There are some schools these days which are set up for teen parents to be able to study and have their kids in childcare at the same facility. Is it "rewarding" bad behaviour? Well, it depends on how you view sex - it *is* legal, it's more about cultural acceptance.

The other thing is that many teens have kids to escape the poverty loop. Kids mean child support. In small-town Newfoundland, for example, many teens will have kids just so as they can start their own lives and try and escape the poverty their parents are in. My friend from a very small island off the Rock returns to find kids she went to school with having a house, car, etc all from government support. It's not socially acceptable, but it's survival.

 

[Motokid]

I provided moonshot with a link the "Offended" thread in my last post.

Angry? Who's angry? This is the best discussion we've had 'round TBF in a while. I'm having fun.

And isn't "Government support" social acceptance? A ticket out of poverty is to get knocked-up? That's the most hideous thing I've ever heard of. Talk about rewarding bad behavior. What do they give you if you rob a bank?

Awwww....isn't it too bad if some kids might have a tough time in life? That's called consequence. It's called making decisions and having to live by them. Is it tough? Yep. Might they suffer? Sure. Should they suffer? Maybe. Should they be rewarded, and pat on the back, and told everything will be alright, and have things handed to them that others have to work hard for? No.

If you reward bad behavior then you'd better expect bad behavior.


edit: "Kid's mean child support" ????? If that's an arguement for having a child then I have no problems standing up for mandatory birth control being surgically implanted into all humans until at least 20 years of age.....

 

[muggle]

Yet again I find muggle to be the very voice of reason.

Aside: The people of the State of California voted down Proposition 73 yesterday.

And muggle is 'blushing".

California propositions.....0 for 4.

 

[moonshot]

WTF !!!! The only way to be fair is for you to stay out of the thread if you can't abide by the rules of the forum. We all seem to be able to behave with no problems. We are doing nothing wrong, yet you propose this thread should be closed because of what "could be"? That's insane.

You seem to be getting rather personal Motokid.
Would that then also apply to the person who complained and had one of your previous threads closed? Stay out of the thread. You told me that you start your thread topics to see how far the moderaters will let you go.
I do not agree with the religious rule. (I did e mail this to a moderator but did not get a reply). Let me give you an example. I don`t like swearing. Your threads contain a good few swear words. Could I suggest a new rule, No Swear Words. Then if they were used I could have that thread closed.
Am I offended by swearing? I could be if I wanted to be. But I am adult enough not to let it bother me, to much....the same should apply to the religious rule.
I think its called freedom of speech, up to a point, anyway.

 

[muggle]

There are rules on the forum. Everyone should abide by them or if they have a problem either PM a Mod or post their complaint in the feedback thread. Ongoing topics should not be messed up by posting outside the rules of the forum. Anyhow, IMHO.

 

[Kookamoor]

Wise words, muggle. We all respect your comments, moonshot, but we must also abide by the rules.

Getting back on topic... or at least it's latest tangential turn:

And isn't "Government support" social acceptance? A ticket out of poverty is to get knocked-up? That's the most hideous thing I've ever heard of. Talk about rewarding bad behavior. What do they give you if you rob a bank?

edit: "Kid's mean child support" ????? If that's an arguement for having a child then I have no problems standing up for mandatory birth control being surgically implanted into all humans until at least 20 years of age.....

Hey, I'm just telling it like it is. For some kids this is what they see as a way out. Strange, weird, creepy, but true. It's a political issue which takes generations to resolve. But I think getting pregnant is more about a lack of education or understanding than it is "bad behaviour". It's very different from robbing a bank, which is a crime. Teen mothers (and fathers) can be very good parents, but I think too often sex is taken too lightly and the consequences of pregnancy not realised.

Awwww....isn't it too bad if some kids might have a tough time in life? That's called consequence. It's called making decisions and having to live by them. Is it tough? Yep. Might they suffer? Sure. Should they suffer? Maybe.

But we live in a society that helps people. That corrects "bad behaviour". Helping teens who are pregnant get through their pregnancies and raise happy, healthy, socially adjusted kids *should* be a government priority, as it makes the forthcoming generation less likely to engage in dangerous behaviour such as early sexual activity, and have the kind of relationships with their parents that will enable a dialogue to take place that will educate them about the risks of sexual intercourse, pregnancy etc. While a "tough love" attitude may seem appropriate, it doesn't solve the problem.