national identity

[jenn]

i've been thinking about this a lot lately. i was wondering if this is something other countries deal with or if it is a canandian phenomena. we canadians are obsessed with what defines us as canadians. at any given time you can find a program, be it tv,or radio or an article in a mag or newpaper, devoted to the pursuit of the canadian identity.
part of the problem for us is we had wishy washy beginnings.(historians step in here) we came over with the groups that became americans, however when all the fighting started we wanted to remain loyal to crown. and even now as an independant country, still are. we share a similar culture with the u.s, but are always trying to define ourselves by how we are not american.(please i am trying to avoid a political talk here, more a look at yourselves from a cultural p.o.v) i believe in land mass we are the largest country, but within our own borders are not united.
we have beer commercials selling patriotism( and beer) and comedy skits about the quintessential canadian(bob and doug mackenzie) but struggle with a serious idea of canadian nationality.
we have no canadian food. have you ever said, oh lets order canadian tonight!! no of course not. igloos and dogsleds are often tied to us, but the iditarod is american and the inuit have not lived in igloos for years. let us not talk about hockey!!!!!
i can define myself as a maritimer, but that definition separates me from the rest of canada.
is this something other countries look at? do you?

 

[Hollis]

Well, I think America has a lot of national pride, for the most part. But I can speak as a Texan, I think we probably have more state pride than most states. Texans always want to feel special about their state. They feel set apart, like everything is bigger and better here. They're proud to say, "I'm Texan." People may look at us and think cows and cowboys. In fact, that's probably the biggest generalization, and while there are a lot of cows and cowboys, drawls, and big trucks down here, there's also incredible commerce and industry, lovely beaches, artistic districts, cosmopolitan areas, etc. People speak of Texas as if it IS their country and I know so many people who refuse to live anywhere else. *laughs*

The Canadians I've met do have a lot of pride in their country. They love being Canadian!

 

[novella]

i've been thinking about this a lot lately. i was wondering if this is something other countries deal with or if it is a canandian phenomena. we canadians are obsessed with what defines us as canadians. at any given time you can find a program, be it tv,or radio or an article in a mag or newpaper, devoted to the pursuit of the canadian identity.
part of the problem for us is we had wishy washy beginnings.(historians step in here) we came over with the groups that became americans, however when all the fighting started we wanted to remain loyal to crown. and even now as an independant country, still are. we share a similar culture with the u.s, but are always trying to define ourselves by how we are not american.(please i am trying to avoid a political talk here, more a look at yourselves from a cultural p.o.v) i believe in land mass we are the largest country, but within our own borders are not united.
we have beer commercials selling patriotism( and beer) and comedy skits about the quintessential canadian(bob and doug mackenzie) but struggle with a serious idea of canadian nationality.
we have no canadian food. have you ever said, oh lets order canadian tonight!! no of course not. igloos and dogsleds are often tied to us, but the iditarod is american and the inuit have not lived in igloos for years. let us not talk about hockey!!!!!
i can define myself as a maritimer, but that definition separates me from the rest of canada.
is this something other countries look at? do you?

One of my best friends is from London, Ontario. She's always saying how all the best "American" comics are Canadian, but that the whole world thinks they're American. (It's true that great comedy comes out of repressed, formal cultures.) She also is very historically connected to England, which might be an Ontario thing. Proud of her English connections. Went to Oxford. Likes to have a big, elaborate garden, has tea at 4.

Canadian cuisine: poutine, Brunswick stew, Nova Scotia salmon, seal flippers (had those?), cod, game, beer bread, potato pie. Sure there's lots.

It's funny that Canada, like the US, is a nation of immigrants, but is viewed from the outside as mostly homogenous, excepting French Canada. In fact, the Caribbean, Asian, and Indian populations are substantial, aren't they?

I don't like the US national identity stereotype. I think it's outdated, Anglo-centric, belligerent, overinflated, and too consumerist. But the worst part about it is that it's pretty accurate.

 

[jenn]

i love being canadian. love it. it's just if asked what made one i would have to pause and think of an answer.

seal flippers are really a newfoundland thing and as my newfie boarder tells me it is more of a food that the older generations ate and now is used as a tourist novelty like screech.

i really feel that being a country of immigrants is one of our defining points. and being so large and covering so many different terrains, moutains, coastal, prairies etc leaves us with provincial id's similar to what hollis was saying about texas.

 

[novella]

jenn, have you read The Shipping News? If so, what did you think of it?

 

[Rustam]

"Not russian" This is what i heard very often. it is like cutting your heart with a knife. I live in Moscow already decade or maybe more, i didn't count. I work here as hard as any of russians, i try to pull up OUR economy. And steel hear it. I am resign oneself, and through this words past. But i feel hurt about it.
I very proud that I am "not russian". And very love MY country.

 

[bobbyburns]

don't take this the wrong way, rustam, but the thing you love doesn't really exist.

 

[jenn]

jenn, have you read The Shipping News? If so, what did you think of it?

i loved it. i have never been to newfoundland but know heaps of people from the rock and the depiction of them as good, kind, funny,and salt of the earth is accurate. newfoundlanders have a complex culture and if you aren't born there, that novel is a pretty good peep hole. however i think many were offended by the themes of incest, as people felt that this is the impression readers(and viewers of the movie) would take away. a backwards people screwing their own family members. but it happens, like anywhere else. annie proulx got the landscape down pat as much of coastal nova scotia looks the same. i also read ace in the hole by her and didn't love it at all. i found it dragged on and on.

do you get any canadian tv? next fall cbc is premiering a show called hatching batching and dispatching which is written, produced and filmed in nfld, and is HYSTERICAL!!!!!!!!

 

[novella]

i loved it. i have never been to newfoundland but know heaps of people from the rock and the depiction of them as good, kind, funny,and salt of the earth is accurate. newfoundlanders have a complex culture and if you aren't born there, that novel is a pretty good peep hole. however i think many were offended by the themes of incest, as people felt that this is the impression readers(and viewers of the movie) would take away. a backwards people screwing their own family members. but it happens, like anywhere else. annie proulx got the landscape down pat as much of coastal nova scotia looks the same. i also read ace in the hole by her and didn't love it at all. i found it dragged on and on.

do you get any canadian tv? next fall cbc is premiering a show called hatching batching and dispatching which is written, produced and filmed in nfld, and is HYSTERICAL!!!!!!!!

I loved The Shipping News too. I thought it was very very funny, particularly the crowd in town and the newspaper staff and articles. Plus, I love the way this big odd person, Quoyle, finds his place in the world.

For Canadian TV, I don't get much. Kids in the Hall, which can be a laugh, plus some jointly produced things from PBS and Canadian TV.

 

[Rustam]

don't take this the wrong way, rustam, but the thing you love doesn't really exist.

What compels you to think in such way?

 

[Cathy C]

I lived in Colorado for most of my life, and people identified us with skiing. Yeah, a lot of people ski, but probably 80% of Coloradoans can't afford to ski, and only a very small part of the state is suitable. Most of the state is "high plains desert", very dry and sandy. So there really isn't any internal state pride like there is in Texas. I've noticed a big difference since we moved to Texas. People are really proud to live here, but so many long to live in Colorado that I'm CONSTANTLY asked why I would move here FROM there. Why wouldn't I?

I guess I have to wonder why there's such a strong need to "identify" oneself with a place. I don't understand sports for the same reason. People attach on to teams and ride their ups and downs, just like state or national pride. Afraid I really don't get it...

 

[Catalyst]

Im Scottish and i love being Scottish. i love the fact our weather is shit and our accent is strong and that we are a small but fierce country.
However my whole family on both my mum and dads side are irish and they live in ireland now after moving back. I have a strong connection with everything irish and love where i live there too. But at the end of the day im Scottish!

 

[Motokid]

I had nothing to do with where I was born, so pounding my chest and screaming pride for my home state does not make sense to me. Same goes with the country I was born in. I'm not ashamed of it, but I don't shout it out just to have something to say.

Texan's, and New Yorkers from New York City and Long Island for some reason seem to be a bit more boisterous about their pride. I've never heard anybody proclaim to the world their undieing alligiance like Texan's and NYC'ers. They'll up and fight you in a heartbeat if you slur their precious state.

If I wasn't bound by family ties I'd move someplace where there was palm trees in a split second. South/North Carolina would be first on my list.

 

[Halo]

I would not say I was fiercely patriotic, but as you can see from my location I have said I am from England, not Britain. There is a lot of so-called "political correctness" at the moment which means that you have to call yourself British, not English. Why? I was born in the country of England. Whenever I fill in forms for Equal Opportunity monitoring, the only box I can tick for ethnic origin is "White British". I know a lot of people would like to refer to themselves as Welsh or Scottish too, but no, the politically correct term is British.

 

[hay82]

I think it means a lot to some danes to know that they are danish, but I don't really care. I would hate to be labeled because of where I come from, although that probably happens all the time.
National pride is one of the things I have a hard time understanding, and a thing I really hate.

 

[jenn]

i am not so interested in patriotism, but what you feel makes you american, danish, scottish japanese what have you, good or bad. as i was saying defining a canadian is difficult. we struggle with what makes us canadian. or is there such a thing as a national identity?

 

[tartan_skirt]

Im Scottish and i love being Scottish. i love the fact our weather is shit and our accent is strong and that we are a small but fierce country....But at the end of the day im Scottish!

Here here!

I think many people forget Scotland and think of us all as "English". My parents were from England and my grandparents from Scotland and I was born on Orkney (Northern Islands below Shetland), so technically I'm Orkadian... but Orkney is in Scotland so I'm Scottish... yeh! I love my tartan trousers and most websites where theres a tartan_skirt its me!

I was once called Norwegian because Orkney used to be a part of Norway

P.S. I don't like haggis and I don't have that much of an accent

 

[hay82]

Ah.. Sorry I misunderstood you then.
I think language is a big part of what makes danes feel danish. The we have the who-do-you-think-you-are attitude, which is a set rules that seems to be buried deep in most danes (Scandinavians?)

You shall not believe that you are somebody.
You shall not believe that you are as worthy as us.
You shall not believe that you are any wiser than us.
You shall not imagine that you are any better than us.
You shall not believe that you know anything more than us.
You shall not believe that you are more than us.
You shall not believe that you are good at anything.
You shall not laugh at us.
You shall not believe that anyone cares about you!
You shall not believe that you can teach us anything!​

Not sure that's a completly right translation, but I was lazy and just found it on the internet.

 

[Halo]

i am not so interested in patriotism, but what you feel makes you american, danish, scottish japanese what have you, good or bad. as i was saying defining a canadian is difficult. we struggle with what makes us canadian. or is there such a thing as a national identity?

When considering what makes me English, all I can think of is stereotypes, like talks about the weather, queues a lot, doesn't learn foreign languages but just trusts that everyone will speak English. (BTW these do not apply to me!) It's a difficult question. I suppose that some level of national pride, even if it's very small, has to come into it somewhere.

 

[Rustam]

I would not say I was fiercely patriotic, but as you can see from my location I have said I am from England, not Britain.

"Patriotizm is dignity of scoundrel" Oscar Lao
I don't remember where i read it. From personal experience, this is true .