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Reading bestsellers
- Thread starter CattiGuen
- Start date
MonkeyCatcher
New Member
I never look at bestseller lists - most of the books on my TBR list have been put there after I have read about them on here. I do read and enjoy bestsellers - some of my favourite books, including Life of Pi and Cross Stitch (Outlander) are best sellers - but I definitely agree that a lot of bestsellers out there are nothing but crap.
ValkyrieRaven88
New Member
Probably people talk about the bestsellers because they literally are sold the most, which means more people hear about Dan Brown's newest book than about Joe Schmoe's 450-page fantasy novel.
I'd have to agree with your professor that most of the books on the bestseller list aren't that great. I am distrustful of such lists because they cater mostly to whatever mainstream society is into at the moment, and I don't seem to have the same interests (literary or other) as mainstream society. And also, I don't read what's in style. It's a silly reason to read.
I agree with Doug Johnson to some degree. I don't believe the bestsellers are all necessarily "crap." I just think they're mediocre, average, whatever. Not brilliant or original or inspiring or anything else that makes me read a book.
I'd have to agree with your professor that most of the books on the bestseller list aren't that great. I am distrustful of such lists because they cater mostly to whatever mainstream society is into at the moment, and I don't seem to have the same interests (literary or other) as mainstream society. And also, I don't read what's in style. It's a silly reason to read.
I agree with Doug Johnson to some degree. I don't believe the bestsellers are all necessarily "crap." I just think they're mediocre, average, whatever. Not brilliant or original or inspiring or anything else that makes me read a book.
never_know
New Member
I usually read recommended books...I don't care if they're bestsellers or crap ... I read them first and give my opinion later... and I do have to admit it's true what Catti Guen’s teacher said "Most of what's on a bestsellers list is crap. Its plot-driven, genre crap."
Dogmatix
New Member
It's irrelevant whether a book makes "the list" or not. To blanket the best sellers as crap implies that everyone has poor taste. That's an elistest attitude. Some people do, some don't, Some best sellers are (crap), some aren't. I chose my reads by recommendation, author or genre. I can pick a book off the shelf from the front of the store just as easily as from the back of the store.
Stewart
Active Member
drmjwdvm said:
Please don't bandy the elitist tag about; it's insulting. And no, not everyone has poor taste, as not everybody buys the bestsellers.
Of course, if we want to talk about a particular line of elitism, then why have a chart in the first place?
Is there such a thing?ValkyrieRaven88 said:
MonkeyCatcher
New Member
Nicely put, Stewart. I thought exactly the same thing when I read that post (except not in such an uber-intellectual wayStewart said:
) I don't think that believing most bestsellers to be crap is elitist behaviour - surely it is just a matter of opinion? Are you saying that by labelling any book as crap, you are insulting the people who liked it, and adopting elitist behaviour? That in order to avoid this elitist tag you must enjoy everything that you read, in order to make sure that your views don't contradict others?
MonkeyCatcher
New Member
Could you please keep the trolling off these forums - and just who was insinuating that you were an idiot?drmjwdvm said:
To me, the throwing around of the elitist tag speaks volumes about the enlightenment of the poster, and not positive ones.Doug Johnson
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ValkyrieRaven88 said:
You are very wise and persceptive.
Doug Johnson
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Stewart said:
Do you think that insults are always wrong?
Shade
New Member
MonkeyCatcher said:
I agree, MC. And with your latest response to Dogmatix.
Of course most of the books on the bestseller list are crap. But so are most of the books not on the bestseller list. There's no certain correlation, positive or negative, between popularity and quality, but wildly popular success does often mean the lowest common denominator has been struck.
Dogmatix said:
Nonsense - or should I say Crap? It does imply that many people have undeveloped taste, brought on by an unwillingness or lack of desire to seek out more interesting stuff. Even The Shadow of the Wind, pure schlock, is more interesting than most of the bestseller lists, and I found it interesting and entertaining. For the most part though, if I'm honest, I think there's something slightly childish about reading books purely for plot, but I'm not going to deny anyone's (like many of my friends, for instance) right to do so.
Doug Johnson said:
"Bestsellers are crap." I'm not a frustrated (or otherwise) writer so I must be part of the tiny minority. You can provide us with the names of those who do conform to your criterion as evidence in support of your theory in due course. I have no idea how to write a bestseller, I'll 'admit' that. But nor do most writers, including bestsellers. They just do the best they can, and a very small number hit the jackpot, coincide with a greater number of readers as much through luck as through judgement. (Though Dan Brown, as I understand it, did write his books by formula, so in that sense he does 'know' how to write a bestseller. However the fact that the first three, written to that formula, didn't become bestsellers except off the back of The Da Vinci Code sweeps the rug away from even that.) Once they've hit it once, of course, their name helps them stay on the lists with their subsequent books.
Doug Johnson said:
I'm not sure what you mean with "good writing" in quote marks like that. That Leonard is objectively good writing and should be enjoyed by all? Or that Leonard is only supposedly (hence the ironising quotes?) 'good writing,' in which case he shouldn't be enjoyed by all, though that seems to contradict the sense of your statement? Anyway: I read Get Shorty (or was it Rum Punch) on the recommendation of that poster boy for 'good writing' Martin Amis ("Leonard is a literary genius who writes rereadable thrillers"), but didn't connect with it at all. The dialogue was often sparky but the whole thing was too plot-driven for my liking.
Doug Johnson
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MonkeyCatcher said:
No, but when you say that "all best sellers are crap," you are making a stereotype and it seems to me that most stereotypes are elitist.
Doug Johnson
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Shade said:
The bible is the best selling book ever. Why is this "crap?"
Near the cross of Jesus stood his mother, his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene.
26When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, "Dear woman, here is your son,"
27and to the disciple, "Here is your mother." From that time on, this disciple took her into his home.
28Later, knowing that all was now completed, and so that the Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, "I am thirsty."
29A jar of wine vinegar was there, so they soaked a sponge in it, put the sponge on a stalk of the hyssop plant, and lifted it to Jesus' lips.
30When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
MonkeyCatcher
New Member
As Shade has already stated, no one has said that, and so therefore as far as I can see, no one is "guilty" of elitist behaviour. It seems to me that /you/ are the one stereotyping, by thinking that those people who don't enjoy every bestseller they read is a snotty intellectual, or an "elitist".Doug Johnson said:
Because it is fiction marketed as fact (somewhat similar to another book being heavily discussed at the moment)
Shade
New Member
Doug Johnson said:
Sorry to mislead, Doug. I don't actually think that (or not in that blanket way): hence the distancing inverted commas, which were also just to take you up on the possibility of someone saying "Bestsellers are crap," which in fact nobody had up until that point.
As an aside, I tend to think of bestseller as meaning something that tops charts for a given week, month or whatever, that sells the best in a particular defined period, if you will. I don't think of the Bible as a bestseller in that sense, though I may be alone there.
Doug Johnson
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Shade said:
Yes.
If you don't like him, that's fine. No one needs to like anything. But if you claim to like "good writing" then you should love Elmore Leonard. If you like stuff that's not plot driven, that's fine. And if you say, "most best sellers are plot driven" I don't have a problem with that. Most people like stories where something actually happens. They always have. In Homer's Odessey, Odysseus fights battles and goes places where he does stuff. Shakespearean characters plot, scheme, have sex, commit murder, die and do all kinds of stuff.
If you say that a story where something actually happens is crap, I have a problem with that.
MonkeyCatcher
New Member
That comment doesn't make much sense to me. With what is considered "good writing" and what is not being so subjective, I don't see how this statement can apply at all. What one person sees as good writing may seen as horrible trash by another.Doug Johnson said:
Every book has a plot (ie something happening), not all books are plot driven (ie there is nothing else to them but something happening)
Shade
New Member
Doug Johnson said:
I don't. Except in the specific sense, eg "The Da Vinci Code, a story where something actually happens, is crap." Indeed I don't think I would tolerate a book where nothing happened, unless it was done tremendously well, eg Heller's ironically titled Something Happened.
Doug Johnson said:
I don't agree. Tastes differ, and you can acknowledge that something is good writing without liking it, eg Márquez for me. I think it's OK to have enough detachment to be able to say "This book is written well but I don't like it," or "This book is complete crap and I love it" as well as the gradations in between.
As another aside, I submit that Shakespeare's plots are secondary (and not just because he nicked all but two of them). My belief is that he's survived 400 years because of his use of language - which is why so much of his writing has passed into common speech. The plots, although they have much that continues to be relevant about how people behave, would not be famous without the language, without the writing.