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Reading in February
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Originally posted by phil_t
Was that a snide comment about Tolkien???
That was a snide comment about Tolkien!!!
Are you even allowed to do that, i thought it was illegal or something
Phil
Who meeeee???? *looks innocent* and *hides from Tolkien fan boys*
Best Regards
That ol wabbit
Hi there!
I really wanna read some more Pre-Tolkien. I just REFUSE to believe that ANY story needs three books to tell it! lol Have you read "The Broken Sword" by Poul Anderson? I just finished that one and it is utterly fantastic! The writing in the book is superb! I did post an example from the book on another thread here but in case you mist it I will post it again below
"Like a rush of wind and a fleeting blur of moon-light he was out of the forest and across the fields."
"Imric the elf-earl rode out one night to see what had happened in the lands of men. It wa a cool spring dark with the moon nearly full, rime glittering on the grass and the stars still hard and bright as in winter. The night was very quite save for the sighing of the wind in the budding branches, and the wood was all sliding shadows and cold white light.
"The witch dwelt alone in the forest with only her memories for company, and over the years those had fed on her soul and left their castings of hate and vengeance lust. She began to increase her powers, rising spirits out the of earth and speaking with demons of the air. To the black sabbath on the broken she rode, though the sky on a broom stick with her rags streaming in the wind. A monster feasting it was, with ancient hideous shapes chanting about the dark alter, with steaming kettles of blood from which they drank deep."
Good stuff, huh?
Have you read, "Lud in The Mist," By hope Mirrlees? That is REALLY good and also pre-tolkien. It's about this small town that has forbidden all things faery. There is a big market though in illicit faery fruit smuggling. Faerie fruit eating can lead to all kinds of crazy and passionate behavior! Very well written and original
You mention the "Worm Ourobous" I really want to read that one too and I'll be sure to get it at some point. I think the Fantasy Masterworks books are really a breath of fresh air though the musty and dusty halls of Fantasy genre. Unfortunately, I think Fantasy is ruled by money and we will get the same trilogy and so forth churned out. This is the reason I read very little fantasy these days, although I do love it as a genre.
There ends the ramblings
Best Regards
SillyWabbit
Just finished: Darker Than You Think - Jack Williamson
What can I say? I loved this novel. The 38th choice for the Fantasy Masterworks series is a derserved one (though it could be considered horror). Published in 1948 it still somehow seems very modern. It's set in the real world and despite its age I never once thought that it seemed to be out of date. The protagonist, an alcoholic jornalist finds himself embroiled in a world of shapeshifters and witches. The plot is incredibaly cliched, but fantastically so. The atmosphere is perfectly eerie and weird and the first couple of chapters had be absolutely hooked. It never wanders off from the central story, resulting in a short, focused novel. Something very refreshing about this book is the position of the main character, he is, in effect, a villain and not the really cool badass one (but she is present), rather the fairly contempable one. His anguish keeps the pages turning. Some people may find the ending a bit arupt, but I though it was very clever. I couldn't go without quoting this bit as it was just pretty funny.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Suppose he's fool enough to try to tell someone his story? Or, more likely, write it? Suppose some unwary publisher should dare to print it - disguised, perhaps, to look like fiction?"
"Would the witches worry?"
"I think not. The witches who review books would doubtless dismiss it as a trivial bit of escapist fantasy."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It witty insights like this that run throughout the book that give it a distinctive feel. Loved this books, but beware, it will breed paranoia...
Also this book suprised me because, well, it's darker than you might think. No really.
8/10
Starting Now: The Bone Doll's Twin by Lyn Flewlling.
What can I say? I loved this novel. The 38th choice for the Fantasy Masterworks series is a derserved one (though it could be considered horror). Published in 1948 it still somehow seems very modern. It's set in the real world and despite its age I never once thought that it seemed to be out of date. The protagonist, an alcoholic jornalist finds himself embroiled in a world of shapeshifters and witches. The plot is incredibaly cliched, but fantastically so. The atmosphere is perfectly eerie and weird and the first couple of chapters had be absolutely hooked. It never wanders off from the central story, resulting in a short, focused novel. Something very refreshing about this book is the position of the main character, he is, in effect, a villain and not the really cool badass one (but she is present), rather the fairly contempable one. His anguish keeps the pages turning. Some people may find the ending a bit arupt, but I though it was very clever. I couldn't go without quoting this bit as it was just pretty funny.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Suppose he's fool enough to try to tell someone his story? Or, more likely, write it? Suppose some unwary publisher should dare to print it - disguised, perhaps, to look like fiction?"
"Would the witches worry?"
"I think not. The witches who review books would doubtless dismiss it as a trivial bit of escapist fantasy."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It witty insights like this that run throughout the book that give it a distinctive feel. Loved this books, but beware, it will breed paranoia...
Also this book suprised me because, well, it's darker than you might think. No really.
8/10
Starting Now: The Bone Doll's Twin by Lyn Flewlling.
VTChEwbecca
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This Month:
Men at Arms by Terry Pratchett
Night Watch by Terry Pratchett
Jingo by Terry Pratchett
The Fifth Elephant by Terry Pratchett
Daisy Fay and the Miracle Man by Fannie Flagg
Monstrous Regiment by Terry Pratchett
Currently: Transfer of Power by Vince Flynn
Men at Arms by Terry Pratchett
Night Watch by Terry Pratchett
Jingo by Terry Pratchett
The Fifth Elephant by Terry Pratchett
Daisy Fay and the Miracle Man by Fannie Flagg
Monstrous Regiment by Terry Pratchett
Currently: Transfer of Power by Vince Flynn
VTChEwbecca
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Pratchett? Who? :-D
His books are an obsession. I started reading them less than a year ago and attempt to savor them, but I just can't help but read them incessantly. Not many other writers can capture me like that (McCaffrey's Dragon series is one of the few others).
His books are an obsession. I started reading them less than a year ago and attempt to savor them, but I just can't help but read them incessantly. Not many other writers can capture me like that (McCaffrey's Dragon series is one of the few others).
Jren
New Member
Recently finished the 'colours of chaos' by L.E Modesitt Jr, have to say that it was a good read, though he does seem to forget about the backgrounds of his characters in all the endless narrative (upon occasion not a bad thing) I'd give it a 9/10.
Just about to start the'fith sorceress' by Robert Newcomb, heard nothing but good things about his work, I'll let you all know how it goes.(Bye)
Just about to start the'fith sorceress' by Robert Newcomb, heard nothing but good things about his work, I'll let you all know how it goes.(Bye)
Jren
New Member
I know what you mean. Just got about half-way today and an open fire would look very tempting right about now, possibly (and i don't say this very often) the worst, most unimaginative, so-called literary work I've ever actually had to force myself to read.
I hope some of his other books will do better, as the sheer single-minded stuborness of the plot really does put me off. I'm sure it can't all be bad, maybe I'm just noticing the bad parts of the book and overlooking some of the better ones. He did after all get published so he must appeal to somebody.
PS- Just finished the fith book in the 'Crown of stars' by Kate Elliot.
one word to describe it:excellent.
Can't wait for number six to be released.
Bye.
I hope some of his other books will do better, as the sheer single-minded stuborness of the plot really does put me off. I'm sure it can't all be bad, maybe I'm just noticing the bad parts of the book and overlooking some of the better ones. He did after all get published so he must appeal to somebody.
PS- Just finished the fith book in the 'Crown of stars' by Kate Elliot.
one word to describe it:excellent.
Can't wait for number six to be released.
Bye.
Here's a review I read a little while ago of the sequel:
Let me start out by saying that Robert Newcomb's "The Gates of Dawn" is a stunning novel. Literally. After several hours, I blacked out from the migraine accrued while reading the book. The Gates of Dawn is Newcomb's second foray into the epic fantasy world. And I pray to God, it's his very last.
Here are the four reasons why the novel is drivel, and I'm sure you could come up with several dozen more without breaking a sweat:
1) The writing is absolutely horrific.
I have never, ever witnessed a book with such awkward, ponderous, and downright BAD, prose. Newcomb doesn't have even the slightest modicum of writing ability. “Gates of Dawn” is choked full of grammatical errors, cheesy, horrfic dialogue, repetitive phrasing, adverb tags, etc. Put it this way: anything that can be done wrong, grammatically, Newcomb has done it.
Whoever edited "Gates of Dawn"should be fired on the spot; it exhibits all the qualities of a first daft. The writing is so bad that an elementary school dropout could find the errors. Was it even edited at all?
For example:
In a dialogue scene between evil villains, Newcomb actually has one of the villain call someone “sophomoric”. It’s a word, but completely out of place. Geez, talk about an egregious breach in continuality…
2) Most of the book is pure exposition.
Newcomb treats his readers like idiots, bashing them over the head with not-so-subtle plot pointers. He also pumps the entire plot through the overactive mouths of Tristan’s two wizard friends; indeed, practically every third page is yet-another-explanation, ad nauseam. If after five pages you tire of the two wizards equivocating with Tristan, brace yourself; you have only another 300 pages of it. Any reader expecting the protagonist to actually do something—other than stand around chatting with the wizards—will be sorely disappointed.
3) The Plot is tenuous and contrived.
Tristan’s friends spend most of their time hiding secrets from him. These “secrets” get doled out in very large chucks (pages and pages) during the course of the novel. The plot goes something like this:
Tristan doesn’t know what to do. He talks to wizards. They pretence ignorance. Tristan moans for fifty pages. Wizards then reveal a secret that will help Tristan. Ad infinitum.
To add insult to injury, I can't say how frustrated I felt after spending a good 10 hours finishing the book(i've run marathons that are easier), only to find out that the ever single action by the protagonist (and friends) had zero impact on the ultimate plot ending. Indeed, Tristan and Co. could have gone to Disneyland and the outcome would have been the same. I don't recall ever reading a book with this type of scenario.
4) Dismal female characterization.
In his first book, "The Fifth Sorceress", every female character was either a
a) sexual deviant
b) victim of rape
c) helpless hanger-on, useful for soft porn scenes
d) combination of two or more
Did he improve his female characters in "The Gates of Dawn"?
No.
The two leading female characters are insipid. Tristan's sister mopes around, crying whenever Tristan leaves. His "love interest" spends several hundred years getting raped by an evil wizard.
I think we all know what Newcomb’s personal opinions of women are. I'll stop there.
Summery:
I equate Newcomb’s newest offering the same entertainment value found in mowing the lawn. Spare yourself the headache.
Just finished the fourth one and Elliot is quickly rising throught my favourite authors list. Great stuff
Jim Cantor
New Member
Edison: The Worm Ouroboros
This is a remarkable book, a cycle if ever there was one. The consciously archaic language takes some adjustment, but its lilt wins out if you persevere. And as full-blown pre-Tolkien fantasy it takes some beating. You have to wonder what the publisher was thinking of to risk his livelihood on this stuff.
"My Lords, there is an embassy from Witchland without, that seeketh present audience".
If I have that wrong, forgive me, because it's over 20 years since I read it. But if I have it right, reflect on the the fact that it's stayed with me for 20 years...
If you're interested in the _origins_ of Tolkien and fantasy fiction, read this. If you want light-reading fantasy fodder, don't bother.
Jim
This is a remarkable book, a cycle if ever there was one. The consciously archaic language takes some adjustment, but its lilt wins out if you persevere. And as full-blown pre-Tolkien fantasy it takes some beating. You have to wonder what the publisher was thinking of to risk his livelihood on this stuff.
"My Lords, there is an embassy from Witchland without, that seeketh present audience".
If I have that wrong, forgive me, because it's over 20 years since I read it. But if I have it right, reflect on the the fact that it's stayed with me for 20 years...
If you're interested in the _origins_ of Tolkien and fantasy fiction, read this. If you want light-reading fantasy fodder, don't bother.
Jim