Scarlett O'Hara

[Meadow337]

And yet I'm sure even in the South there are people who still manage to be kind both now and then without resorting to telling you to 'go to hell in such a way that it is 30 minutes or longer before you figure it out" which is both particularly nasty and condescending all at the same time.

Sorry I simply don't admire any of those qualities unless they also go with a generous helping of humility and kindness and love.

 

[pontalba]

I see your point, Meadow. As I watch her manipulate folks (mostly men) to get what she wants, she almost seems to grow horns... However, she was a product of her time. A woman's lot in life depended upon how well she could manipulate men. Owning her own property and business was unheard of (though Scarlett managed to do both, didn't she?) Girl children were taught very differently from boy children - and it remains so today in many instances... They learned to cook, clean, sew and manage their homes (and their men) as well as manage their help and manipulate their social circle. Each girl child (especially in Scarlett's "class") was the center of her own universe. She may not have had a lot of control - but what she had - she manipulated to get. I did feel bad about Scarlett's treatment of Melanie (who was cut from a whole different cloth than Scarlett...). I grew up in the South and it has changed very much, of course, but girl children (I believe) are taught to be aware of tactics like Scarlett's. Sayings like - "A true Southern Belle can tell you to go to hell in such a way that it is 30 minutes or longer before you figure it out" When I read the book, I try to picture the time period it portrays. I may be way off base, here - but I don't think so...

Each person will judge the content of a book based on their life experience. Every book will read differently to each person who reads it - no matter what the author intended. I don't see Scarlett tossing around a lot of "the milk of human kindness" but, she was smart, feisty, determined and close to fearless -

Well put gwtw...

Scarlett may not have tossed around "the milk of human kindness" as you say, but she did keep her family and folks from starvation, and they had a place, their own home to live in as they wished. She took care of her family, and that goes a long way with me. If it had been up to the carpetbaggers, and some others, both she and her family would have been out on the road. As many were.

 

[Meadow337]

but she did keep her family and folks from starvation, and they had a place, their own home to live in as they wished. She took care of her family, and that goes a long way with me.

That doesn't excuse being nasty and selfish, nor does it excuse embarking on a life of crime as it does for so many in the real world. It doesn't excuse cruelty, indifference to the suffering of others, or any of the other less than desirable character traits hardship seems to bring out in some people. Hardship seems to polarise people into those who rise above it (and Scarlett IMO was not one of them) and those who don't and for whom it is an excuse to be the worst humanity can be, which, again IMO, it is so definitely not an excuse. There is always a choice in how you are going to respond. Scarlett had choices as to how she was going to hold hearth and home together, or attract a husband, or act as a wife, and her circumstances do not excuse the bad choices she made. I think she would have made bad choices anyway because she was selfish, spoiled, immature, and insecure person who continued throughout her life to have a sense of entirely undeserved entitlement.

 

[Robert]

Scarlett is a very interesting character to say the least. It's been awhile since I read that novel, but she what, 16 y/o when the war started? So she went from being a rich pantation owners oldest daughter & bell of the ball to a confederate widow responsible for her family. What a weight for a kid bear.

 

[canuck]

Hi Meadow: I get the feeling that you have a hate on for Scarlett O'Hara. She certainly wasn't boring. I loved Gone With The Wind - the movie - all 4 hours of it - I saw it when I was a lot younger and thought it all so romantic although I didn't like the way she treated Melanie (but it was just fiction, right!)

 

[Meadow337]

Hi Meadow: I get the feeling that you have a hate on for Scarlett O'Hara. She certainly wasn't boring. I loved Gone With The Wind - the movie - all 4 hours of it - I saw it when I was a lot younger and thought it all so romantic although I didn't like the way she treated Melanie (but it was just fiction, right!)

No I don't like her, and yes its only fiction however I have come across people like her IRL and I don't think their behaviour or actions are justified. There is no excuse or circumstance IMO that excuses a lack of kindness, or compassion or awareness of others.

 

[canuck]

No I don't like her, and yes its only fiction however I have come across people like her IRL and I don't think their behaviour or actions are justified. There is no excuse or circumstance IMO that excuses a lack of kindness, or compassion or awareness of others.

Yes, I've come across people like that, mostly in the workplace, but happily now that I'm retired I can avoid those people who are boors. It's difficult if it's someone you have to work with, especially if they are in a supervisory position and luckily for the last ten or so years of employment I was in a two person office, just me and my boss. I worked for a lawyer and he was golden. Never a harsh word so it was a joy to be there. If I have the misfortune now to come in contact with someone who is not very nice it's usually quite easy to avoid them. My husband is a lovely man and our children (all adults) are nice people so no problem in that direction.

 

[pontalba]

Yes, I've come across people like that, mostly in the workplace, but happily now that I'm retired I can avoid those people who are boors. It's difficult if it's someone you have to work with, especially if they are in a supervisory position and luckily for the last ten or so years of employment I was in a two person office, just me and my boss. I worked for a lawyer and he was golden. Never a harsh word so it was a joy to be there. If I have the misfortune now to come in contact with someone who is not very nice it's usually quite easy to avoid them. My husband is a lovely man and our children (all adults) are nice people so no problem in that direction.

It's true, in the workplace it's difficult to avoid boors. Thick on the ground.
I've worked for lawyers, a firm though...all kinds. Mostly very nice though, and would help at the drop of a hat. I've worked with the public too though, and boy, oh boy, talk about all kinds! Things that go bump in the night!

I'm fortunate in that I've married my best friend though, so that is as perfect as it gets.

 

[Peder]

I think of the places I've worked and the groups I have taken my lunch breaks with. In general I've avoided the groups with the boors. I use the same criterion for online forums.

 

[Meadow337]

I definitely would not define Scarlett or her real life equivalent as a boor.

Boor: A person with rude, clumsy manners and little refinement.

No she is the person who is absorbed with self - unaware or unwilling to be aware of the effect of her actions on others and justifies everything under the guise of "I did what I had to do" .... well for her and others like her ... no you didn't 'have to' be insensitive of anything and anyone but your self and your own desires. You could have helped others, been mindful of their needs, considerate and kind and STILL kept hearth and home together - probably been happy too.

 

[canuck]

I definitely would not define Scarlett or her real life equivalent as a boor.




No she is the person who is absorbed with self - unaware or unwilling to be aware of the effect of her actions on others and justifies everything under the guise of "I did what I had to do" .... well for her and others like her ... no you didn't 'have to' be insensitive of anything and anyone but your self and your own desires. You could have helped others, been mindful of their needs, considerate and kind and STILL kept hearth and home together - probably been happy too.

Hi Meadow: When I used the term boor it wasn't necessarily the dictionary definition. I would classify as boors people who are mostly concerned with themselves and not at all concerned with anyone else's comfort - sort of a catchall word. There's probably another way of saying the kind of people I mean - the ones who are totally unaware of the feelings of other people. Maybe you should be taking Margaret Mitchell to task for producing a character you feel has absolutely no empathy (except she has left this earthly plane). Can't help but feel there is someone in your circle of friends or acquaintances who reminds you of a Scarlett O'Hara type of person. Just a wee thought. I've known people like that and there really is no changing how they behave, best just to avoid them.

 

[Meadow337]

I think what annoys about it is that yes Scarlett is just a character in a book, but she isn't presented as a bad person, there is a sense, expressed by various people in this thread as well, of admiration of her grit and determination. That doing 'what she had to in order to survive' was some how admirable even though very few of those things were in fact 'good'. She lied, she cheated, she manipulated, and abused people. If put in a different context she would be a 'bad' person, but suddenly because 'oh she was just doing what she had to' it's not only all OK, but admirable? I don't get that way of thinking! Being nasty is being nasty full stop. Cheating is cheating - there is no circumstance that makes it OK. Doing dirty business is doing dirty business, and its wrong. And I guess that is the fundamental difference in the way I see the character. What she did was wrong. Why she did it explains it but doesn't excuse it.

 

[Kittytn1]

I really like Scarlett. I think she did what she had to to survive in a horrible situation. I think she had her faults but that's what makes her so real as a character. I think she had to grow up very quickly and that meant that in some ways she was still a spoilt little girl. I think a lot of her problem was that Ashley led her on and kept her hoping and she was never able to get over that first love and see what she really wanted.