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Self Promotion

Oops, actually I don't think that clueless has read it.. laboi 22 and Gem definately have though. And I'm pretty sure I saw another person in the Writer's Showcase area who said that they had read it also.
 
I suppose of coarse, that we could be barking up the wrong tree here. It is possible that Sirmyk has flown off the handle a touch and taken things a bit too personally.

Maybe, he was politely asked by the mods, or some TBF member, to tone down the "self-promotion" and he took that to mean that he's been awarded another strike against him, and he's just a twitch away from getting banned.

Is it possible that Sirmyk has completely over-reacted to a "request", and thought it was more than a "request"?

He has admitted to being in a bit of a writers slump....maybe he's just a bit grouchy and he took a simple pm to the extreme? Maybe?
 
Motokid said:
Maybe, he was politely asked by the mods, or some TBF member, to tone down the "self-promotion" and he took that to mean that he's been awarded another strike against him, and he's just a twitch away from getting banned.
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I'm not commenting on the above discussion or the merit of the "issue at hand", but I believe it was an actual warning. We discussed it last night. Sirmyk is most likely in bed, so I figured I'd hop in and confirm.
 
I'll throw in my two cents. I don't think sirmyk joined the forum with the sole intent of promoting his book. He posts in other threads and in my opinion, is someone worth listening to. (well, most of the time anyway. ;) ) I've read the synopsis of his book and while it's not to my taste, I wish him all the best.
 
I'm sure if Thomas Pynchon came on here we'd let him discuss whatever he liked whether it was his yet to be released novel or not. I doubt he'd get a warning.
 
In the October Voting thread I had posted something that went like this:

'Don't you guys have any spirit for the 'local guy?'

I can't quote it exactly because it was deleted. Why I do not know and have not been told. I was not asked by sirmyk to post so and there was no harm in posting so. Why the hell not choose a book to talk about when the author sits there before you?! Baffling to me. Mike has been very good about taking book orders to PMs and very good about not being pushy about his book on here. If he ends up being banned or just leaves, and over this nonsense I frankly wouldn't blame him, it will be the boards loss.
 
I feel I should try and clear up a few misconceptions people appear to have regarding this matter. I will obviously not go into detail as this is a private matter between the moderators and Sirmyk, but since he has chosen to make it public then I will comment on a few of the points raised.

This thread is not the reason Sirmyk was asked to moderate his level of promotion. We are fully aware that this thread was started by Jay (though that came about after private promotion). What was objected to was the plugging for votes in the October Voting thread and other factors involving that thread that Sirmyk is fully aware of (as well as other minor promotions in several other threads - many of which have been deleted or modified). The deleted posts in the October voting thread were ones that had been made in answer to either self-promoting posts or the other issue. Sirmyk is not being banned (as he has stated) and it is his choice whether or not to leave - though it will be a shame if he does decide to go. However he is fully aware of the terms of the MA.

We are more than happy to have Sirmyk discuss his book in this thread (which was created specifically for this purpose) - however the bounds of self-promotion have been overstepped. I fully agree that Sirmyk has contributed to the forums whilst he has been here, he is one of the very few people who come on to promote their work and actually stay and become an active member of TBF and I for one hope he stays.
 
Ice said:
This thread is not the reason Sirmyk was asked to moderate his level of promotion. We are fully aware that this thread was started by Jay (though that came about after private promotion).
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Thank you for the clarification. At least I am being included now. The "private promotion" with Jay was brought up after I PM'd him asking if he would be kind enough to offer critique on my book (free copy given to him, of course, and the criticism privately e-mailed as well). As most of you know he is / was (now) very nitpicky with his literature choices. That was what I was looking for--someone to tear apart my book... privately. He offered via PM to instead purchase the book, and much later offered to start this thread to bring up discussion. I found no problem with that. I even told him it was okay if he wished to publicly bash the hell out of my book. Since, Jay has left on his own accord and this thread has sprung some healthy discussion, thanks to Jay.

What was objected to was the plugging for votes in the October Voting thread and other factors involving that thread that Sirmyk is fully aware of (as well as other minor promotions in several other threads - many of which have been deleted or modified). The deleted posts in the October voting thread were ones that had been made in answer to either self-promoting posts or the other issue.
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This is the clarification I am seeking from moderators, which Darren is now involved with. Last I heard, I was asked to change my avatar from the morbid crow to something more pleasant, and then BLAMMO! Before that there was discussion as to why my brother-in-law's posts were deleted, as well as his account. I know there are other members on this forum with relatives who post, so why cannot a relative of mine discuss my work and I answer his questions? The posts by he (ram_alam) were less than self-promotional on my part. He's never read the book; he was simply curious why other members liked it; he was removed. Shame for him to visit from hick-ville bumf**k nowhere and make some valid posts! Other than that I can only think of the single post where I stated something similar to "Just a few more votes, people..." Sorry if it was wrong on my part to desire my book to be up for discussion. Cain me. Hopefully everything gets taken care of and sorted out and we can drop this subject before I either go postal, or silently leave the forum.

Sirmyk is not being banned (as he has stated) and it is his choice whether or not to leave - though it will be a shame if he does decide to go. However he is fully aware of the terms of the MA.
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I'm not sure I have stated that I am being banned. I simply stated that if I don't change my ways I will be banned. Thank you for thinking of my leaving as a shame. I love it here. I just feel like I'm on testing ground for death row, waiting for that third strike to settle my fate.
 
Sirmyk - I feel it is a shame you edited your reply as I felt you gave a good answer originally. However I will endeavour to answer some of the questions that have come to light.

Thank you for the clarification. At least I am being included now.
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If you ever require any clarification or simply wish to discuss what has happened I will always be happy to discuss the matter privately. As you yourself have noticed, I always try to PM people for minor incidents so they are aware of the infraction and can thus change their style accordingly, as I feel this is only fair. I am more than happy to discuss any matters privately with the people involved.

Before that there was discussion as to why my brother-in-law's posts were deleted, as well as his account. I know there are other members on this forum with relatives who post, so why cannot a relative of mine discuss my work and I answer his questions? The posts by he (ram_alam) were less than self-promotional on my part. He's never read the book; he was simply curious why other members liked it; he was removed. Shame for him to visit from hick-ville bumf**k nowhere and make some valid posts! Other than that I can only think of the single post where I stated something similar to "Just a few more votes, people..." Sorry if it was wrong on my part to desire my book to be up for discussion. Cain me.
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If you wish to discuss this matter here then I will endeavour to explain in more detail. Getting your brother-in-law (step brother?) to sign up just to add more votes for your book and to pretend he does not know you in order to generate more discussion and thus more promotion for your book was, we felt, unfair to the genuine posters who voted in the poll. You were in the same house, using the computers at the same time yet you still felt the need to pretend you did not know each other in order to promote your book.
 
ions said:
In the October Voting thread I had posted something that went like this:

'Don't you guys have any spirit for the 'local guy?'

I can't quote it exactly because it was deleted. Why I do not know and have not been told. I was not asked by sirmyk to post so and there was no harm in posting so. Why the hell not choose a book to talk about when the author sits there before you?! Baffling to me. Mike has been very good about taking book orders to PMs and very good about not being pushy about his book on here. If he ends up being banned or just leaves, and over this nonsense I frankly wouldn't blame him, it will be the boards loss.
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Ice, do you have a reason behind this deletion? Because quite frankly I don't see any difference between this and someone urging people to buy a book by another author in a "Bookshelves" thread.

Just curious.
 
MonkeyCatcher said:
Ice, do you have a reason behind this deletion? Because quite frankly I don't see any difference between this and someone urging people to buy a book by another author in a "Bookshelves" thread.

Just curious.
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It was one of the posts that were deleted due to them being a direct response to Sirmyk plugging his book. In the end the thread turned into a bit of a farce, where by Sirmyk was asking for votes so his book would win, then others came on (though they had no affiliation with their books of choice trying to get those to win). If the book of the month is to degenerate into such a fiasco then do you feel it may be better to ask people to cast their vote but refrain from commenting? The idea of the Book of the Month is to see which book people would like to read - it is not a form of promotion nor is it a competition :( If people wish to run a competition or wish to promote their book on the main site they can speak to Darren regarding this matter :)
 
Ice said:
Getting your brother-in-law (step brother?) to sign up just to add more votes for your book and to pretend he does not know you in order to generate more discussion and thus more promotion for your book was, we felt, unfair to the genuine posters who voted in the poll.
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I am sorry moderation saw it this way. Sad. And he is my wife's kinda-step brother... whatever that makes him to me. He's an avid reader of non-fiction and will probably never read my book because he hates horror. He was interested on staying onboard to chat and to discuss nonfiction (I just hooked him up with his first computer to use in hickville bumf**k nowhere). He even voted for my book in the poll, which I sort'a believe was appropriately removed.

You were in the same house, using the computers at the same time yet you still felt the need to pretend you did not know each other in order to promote your book.
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I don't recall pretending anything. I simply introduced him to the Internet, helped him setup a book forum account with one of the many computers on my network, and let him go at it. He found some threads with my book mentioned and posted some posts. I replied. He replied. Blah, blah, blah. Next morning I start getting moderator PMs as well as notification that my kinda-step-in-law-whoever-the-hell's account will be deleted. Sorry for introducing relatives to the forum. I wasn't aware this was wrong, but I will be sure in the future not to introduce any other family and friends to the forum.

It was one of the posts that were deleted due to them being a direct response to Sirmyk plugging his book. In the end the thread turned into a bit of a farce, where by Sirmyk was asking for votes so his book would win, then others came on (though they had no affiliation with their books of choice trying to get those to win). If the book of the month is to degenerate into such a fiasco then do you feel it may be better to ask people to cast their vote but refrain from commenting?
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If commenting and discussion in such a poll is frowned upon, why not eliminate the option and just have a poll?

The idea of the Book of the Month is to see which book people would like to read - it is not a form of promotion nor is it a competition
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We have a unique scenario here. Is this the first time a forum member's book has ever been chosen / ever been in a close running for a Book of the Month poll? If this is so, maybe an amendment to the forum rules is needed... something like "No forum member, who has published a book of any sorts, is eligible for, nor can vote for, nor can discuss amongst other forum members, his or her work if ever nominated for a Book of the Month poll." Something like that. I'm not trying to be a testicle here; I just think such a situation could potentially occur in the future.

If people wish to run a competition or wish to promote their book on the main site they can speak to Darren regarding this matter :)
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After four weeks or so of crickets chirping while waiting for a reply from Darren regarding such competitions, I went ahead and setup a contest of my own months ago in the Writers' Showcase section, which ended a ways back. A few weeks ago I finally got that PM asking if I needed help with setting up that contest.
 
He even voted for my book in the poll, which I sort'a believe was appropriately removed.
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Sort'a wrong? How about absolutely? It's just books we're talking about, I realize that. At the same time, it is bad that you recruited family to vote in the poll for your book. To me, there is no sort'a about it-it was wrong for you to do. But that's o.k., we all make mistakes. I was asked to knock a thing off too, you just do it and move on.


I don't recall pretending anything. I simply introduced him to the Internet, helped him setup a book forum account with one of the many computers on my network, and let him go at it. He found some threads with my book mentioned and posted some posts. I replied. He replied. Blah, blah, blah. Next morning I start getting moderator PMs as well as notification that my kinda-step-in-law-whoever-the-hell's account will be deleted. Sorry for introducing relatives to the forum. I wasn't aware this was wrong, but I will be sure in the future not to introduce any other family and friends to the forum.
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Once again, if he voted in the poll, that is hardly accidental or uninentional. The issue is not whether or not family members may join, the issue is whether you may do so in order to steer a poll your way to get your book read by others-which makes the whole contest a polluted one at that. Not only that, but when we were getting people plugging their books and they feigned ignorance of the rules, we didn't cut them much slack. It can't be honestly maintained that people who said: "Well, it wasn't my fault..." really cuts it and excuses the action.

After four weeks or so of crickets chirping while waiting for a reply from Darren regarding such competitions, I went ahead and setup a contest of my own months ago in the Writers' Showcase section, which ended a ways back. A few weeks ago I finally got that PM asking if I needed help with setting up that contest.
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O.k., so he's a busy guy. Did you PM a mod?


I don't know you that well Sirmyk, but I think you should stay. We all make mistakes and I really don't see the point in leaving. Yeah o.k., you're a little peturbed, but you know what?, that happens from time to time. I'm not exactly thrilled with things from time to time here, but that doesn't mean that I don't value this board and the other people on it. It's kind of like family-you scrap from time to time, but there's nothing you wouldn't do for them. I hope you stick around, seeing your "reading my obituary" thing, it appears that you have for the most part, made up your mind as to what you're going to do. I hope you seriously reconsider it.
 
SFG75 said:
Sort'a wrong? How about absolutely? It's just books we're talking about, I realize that. At the same time, it is bad that you recruited family to vote in the poll for your book. To me, there is no sort'a about it-it was wrong for you to do. But that's o.k., we all make mistakes. I was asked to knock a thing off too, you just do it and move on.
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He wasn't recruited to do anything. I introduced him to The Book Forum and his did his own thing. Unfortunately, since he was at my house at the time, and sharing the IP address of my cable modem on my network, him choosing to vote on the poll got me in trouble. My "sort-of" comment comes from the fact that, as a forum member, he should be able to do whatever he pleases within the forum rules. The really sad thing about all of this is that if he were stationed out of state in hicksville bumf**k nowhere, none of this would have ever come about. I could have easily sent out a mass e-mailing to get a few hundred of my correspondants to quickly sign up and vote. But that would have been moraly wrong. The moderators happened to notice similar IP addresses for two members. I should have never introduced him to this forum. So much for sharing the love.

O.k., so he's a busy guy. Did you PM a mod?
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N'ah, I was relatively new at the time. Back then I didn't know any better.

...you're a little peturbed
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I just do what the voices in my head tell me to do. I need therapy, bad.

It's kind of like family-you scrap from time to time, but there's nothing you wouldn't do for them. I hope you stick around, seeing your "reading my obituary" thing, it appears that you have for the most part, made up your mind as to what you're going to do. I hope you seriously reconsider it.
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That's just some of my morbid sense of humor showing. This is a giant family here. A very f**ked up one, which is somewhat normal. I just feel that one more simple misunderstanding could give me the boot.
 
I think this entire thing has gotten a little out of hand. I realize I'm a n00b, but it seems a little rediculous. Can't we all just get along? *sticks a daisy in someone's water gun*
Seriously though, I would love to be able to discuss a book I enjoyed with the author.
 
That's just some of my morbid sense of humor showing. This is a giant family here. A very f**ked up one, which is somewhat normal. I just feel that one more simple misunderstanding could give me the boot.
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Ever see the movie- The Royal Tannenbaums? Perhaps that's us? :D
 
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